Who has the better MW win resume - Hagler or Apostoli ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, Jul 16, 2011.


  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Who beat the better middleweights ?
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Beating Steele and Krieger probably puts Apostoli over the top.
     
  3. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Apostoli. Fought in a much better era of middleweights. The loss to Garcia hurts his overall standing though.
     
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Hagler had Minter, Antufuermo, Scypion, Briscoe, Watts, Hearns, Sibson, Duran, Hamsho and Mugabi.

    Apostoli had Abrams, Thil, Risko and Kreiger. He beat and also lost to Overlin, Steele, Corbett III and Battina, which I tend to count as less worthy than outright single victories.

    I'll take Hagler, tho Apostoli (and Steele) are generally not appreciated as much as they ought to be.
     
  5. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    As far as win resume alone though, Apostoli beat the better names. Fighters like Scypion and Watts were comparable to the lesser known names that Apostoli beat, such as Glen Lee and Big Boy Hogue.

    Wins over Freddie Steele, Marcel Thil, Young Corbett III, Solly Krieger, Melio Bettina, Georgie Abrams, Lou Brouillard, Babe Risko, that's tough to match in an era like Hagler's. But overall Hagler was of course better. He was more dominant for a longer period of time.
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    There's probably a link between him being so dominant for so long, and the relative strengths of the eras.
     
  7. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I was about to add "but you have to admit that Hagler would have found it very tough had he competed against the "Black Murderer's Row" for example".

    Apostoli was 6-0 when he faced the 95-2 Freddie Steele. Gave a hell of an effort until going down on his shield in the final round. A fighter with his style was never going to have too much longevity in a tough era like that.

    However there are certain factors that point to me Apostoli's limitations. Watching the Marcel Thil fight, the older but clever Thil seems to get the better of the action until a cut puts an end to his efforts. The smaller Garcia dented his chin with his famous "bolo punch". He seemed to rely a bit too much on his physicality to win, but it worked for him at his peak.
     
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Yeah, I'm still finding it hard to get a handle on his career.
    I think he was definitely worn down by some very tough fights though (perhaps esp. the Conn fights) before losing to Garcia.
    He made a half-decent comeback after the war though.
     
  9. Pachilles

    Pachilles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hagler with a workforce of 12,000 Egyptian pyramid building slaves, couldnt carry Apostoli's jockstrap
     
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    You don't think much of Hagler do you ?
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Absolutely excellent, informed post.

    In another one, MDWC put it supebly when he described Hagler as "looking unbeatable" in his own time. I think that's fair and helps, along with dominance and longevity, to make Hagler the great fighter by distance.
     
  12. Pachilles

    Pachilles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hagler couldnt carry a climbers safety strap

    lo, i am in good company.
     
  13. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    That's the double edged sword with any dominant champ. A similar twist of logic would ask what it says of an era when a 6-0 fighter gives hell to a 95-2 fighter.

    If we are going strictly by wins (and ignoring if those fighters defeated returned the favor) it tightens the argument up quite a bit. But I tend to count wins and losses on a resume, the former to the positive, the latter to the negative.
     
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    True.
    I tend to take the middle ground on that.

    If the 95-2 record has been built on some legit opposition, it suggests the 6-0 fighter is going places.
     
  15. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Leon Spinks?