Who has the greater legacy: RJJ or Hopkins?

Sure, Jones' best win (over Hopkins) is better than any win Hopkins racked up, based on the fact that Hopkins himself ranks so highly. In terms of number of quality opponents at Middleweight, there I would prefer Hopkins.

 

Having wins over Toney and Hopkins at MW are better than wins over Trinidad and DLH at MW.

 

Oh my ****ing.... Man, Jones fought Toney at Supermiddleweight. Please do some research.

To recap: Hopkins fought Wright at 170lbs. Jones fought Toney at 168lbs.

Edit: Did you even see my post regarding Hopkins' win over Johnson?

 

At MW, yes....overall, I would favor Jones. And in terms of sheer dominance over his competition I would favor Jones as well, but that may not be fair to Hopkins. Hopkins style was a break down style, even when he was more aggressive in the mid 90's. Jones just made people look silly.

 

Aye, I find it very hard to make a judgment on their legacies at this point right now because they're not done writing their stories. If Jones is humiliated by brutal knockout again and Hopkins is able to beat another top name... maybe that tilts the scale. We'll see. I realize they're both past it, but if they keep fighting it has to count for something.

For instance, if a fighter keeps going past his prime, he risks hurting his overall legacy by virtue of the fact that if he WINS, the praise is multiplied. So if they have a chance to increase their legacy, they have to also be at risk to decrease it.

 

Gotcha....sadly Jones has slown down to a point where I think what would have been a signature win in 2001 over Tito may now end up in the loss column for Jones.

 

Yep, it's an interesting fight based on the fact that it is unclear what is left of Tito, but I expect him to still be strong as he has had time for his body to rest. If he's stayed in shape (I don't follow him closely at all) he could be tough for Jones to deal with. Also I don't know how well Jones will cope to losing even more weight to make the fight happen... what limit did they settle on again?

I'd like him to win and meet Hopkins again, for what it's worth. I think that'd be the one of the biggest motivation fights of either of their careers. Jones vs. Griffin II and Hopkins vs. Trinidad would be comparable.

 

Why do ya'll consider:

1 - Jones was shot when Tarver KO'ed him.
2 - Tarver got in a "lucky punch".

Why isn't it said that Tarver ruined Jones and he timed him perfectly?

Personally I say it's a double factor. The first is Jones lost just a touch of speed. Not a ton, but just enough to get caught and certainly not enough to make a fighter shot. The second I attribute to Tarver studying the crap outta Jones for years. Tarver spent a long time trying to get Jones in the ring and probably knew everything he was going to do.

Jones never took any serious damage in the ring for a long ass time. Usually a fighter becomes shot after absorbing alot of damage over time. In regard to Jones, I think father time and poor technique is what beat him... and that Tarver hook that put him on his back.

 

Because his eyes were closed when he threw the punch. Go watch the tape :deal

 

?

 

Hopkins barely its true people will remember Jones for his great knockout and blazing speed, but they will also remember him getting knocked out twice something that never happend to Hopkins.

 

You can crit RJJ for his losses, but his achievements speak for themselves.

I voted for RJJ and its not particularly close, even though I think Bhop's an atg.

Jones-
BHop Jorge Castro Thulani Malinga Thomas Tate
Toney Montell Griffin Merqui Sosa Vin Paz
Virgil Hill Eric Lucas Tony Thornton
Julio Gonzalez Reggie Johnson
Clinton Woods Eric Harding
Antonio Tarver John Ruiz


Hopkins-

Trinidad Glenn Johnson Antwun Echols
ODH Syd Vanderpool
Keith Holmes
Tarver
H.Eastman

Both RJJ's atg opponents were the same size. BHop was considerably bigger than ODLH and Trinidad.

 

For Hopkins, you've got Trinidad, Johnson, Echols, De La Hoya, Vanderpool, Holmes, Tarver, and Eastman, but you HAVE to add in Winky Wright and William Joppy. You could add in Carl Daniels, Robert Allen, and Joe Lipsey as well.

 

Tarver Jones 1 ?? one of his greatest performances?
He looked his worst ever up to that point... in the fight before he was knocked out.