Who has the style to upset a prime Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bummy Davis, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    23,666
    Likes Received:
    2,148
    Out of the former and
    subsequent Champions and top challengers, Who do you give a good chance to upset Ali.

    Who do you give a good chance because of styles to beat a prime Ali

    I know some will say no one but lets be realistic...everyone has a style they have trouble with, even the best. Who would be Ali's kryptonite from Sullivan to the Klitschko's and in between.

    pick one or pick 20....fighters that COULD possibly beat him.
     
  2. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Messages:
    13,685
    Likes Received:
    344
    Holmes may pose the same type of threat that Forrest did to Mosley, or Tarver did to Jones. Interestingly, Lewis is does not remind me of Holmes when watching him fight, but he may pose a similar problem.

    I rank Ali #1 at heavyweight all time, and #1 head to head. These are the two I think would be his biggest threats, and I favor Holmes more than Lewis.
     
  3. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Messages:
    5,633
    Likes Received:
    58
    The difference between the style of Ali and Mosley is so vast I can't respect the comparison. Young or old, ali was most susceptible to the left hook. I think to beat him you need to be fast on your feet, or he just paints your face for six rounds on his toes.

    It's probably still a prime Frazier.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,552
    Likes Received:
    27,179
    A lot of fighters "could" do it on a given day, with favourable circumstances, and not all of them are great.

    Could and would are of course different concepts.
     
  5. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Messages:
    13,685
    Likes Received:
    344
    I see what you are saying, and I neglected to mention the relevance in my post.

    A lot of Ali's style was based on his athleticism, and is not a style that is duplicated. Shane Mosley is actually a brawler in a boxer's body, and does fight very different from Ali. The only reason I mention Mosley is because he often wins by out athleting his opponent.

    I don't think that Jones fights like Ali either, but he too wins a lot with athleticism.

    I think that Holmes and Lewis can stand at a distant range and try to patiently win exchanges starting with a battle of the jab. I have not seen Ali in the ring with anyone his size and larger with a chance of matching jabs with him.
     
  6. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Messages:
    5,633
    Likes Received:
    58
    Good post. I see your point now. I agree, although I think he would take advantage of the fact both are not as fast on their feet, in and out, and turning them.

    Man, what I wouldn't give for Lewis-Ali, just to see how Ali overcame him.
     
  7. sugarsean

    sugarsean Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,496
    Likes Received:
    13
    A peak "Smokin" Joe Fraizer
     
  8. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Messages:
    13,685
    Likes Received:
    344
    That's possible, especially with Lewis. Lewis was larger, and a good step slower afoot.

    Holmes is an interesting match. I really think Ali's will to win may be what would get him past Holmes. I don't think that Calzaghe vs Kessler in terms of styles, but remember when Kessler started to land some solid shots on Calzaghe? Calzaghe dug in and imposed his will on Kessler. I think something like this would happen if a young Ali faced a prime Holmes.

    Still, the thread is asking for the best chance to defeat Ali. I think that Frazier is a good foil for the Ali that is less reliant on his legs, but has lesser success with the one that does.
     
  9. OBCboxer

    OBCboxer Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Messages:
    7,949
    Likes Received:
    226
    Prime Frazier. He's the only Heavyweight in history I pick over a prime Ali. He brings it all, the fast nonstop pressure, the left hook, the power to hurt him and the style.
     
  10. Hydraulix

    Hydraulix Left Hook From Hell.. Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,767
    Likes Received:
    23
    Joe Louis, and for several reasons. He wrote an article called "How I would have clobbered Clay." Here it is.

    This is the same strategy that Joe Frazier used to beat Ali. Work the body early to slow him down for the later rounds, and when he drops his hands or u catch him against the ropes, go for the knockout. However, Ali was good at shaking off one good punch, but he probably wouldn't be able to take combinations. Joe Louis threw fast, accuarate and powerful combinations.

    One more thing; Ali had trouble with Ken Norton in three fights because of one thing; the left jab. Ali couldn't block a jab. If Norton's jab destroyed Ali's rhythm, can you imagine how the Joe Louis jab would have worked? Joe's jab was fast and deadly like a cobra. 15 rounds is a long time, and Joe Louis, with his fast hand speed and body punching, would hurt Ali late in the fight.

    Aside from Joe Louis, I'd give Marciano a slight chance to beat Ali as well. Rocky punched harder than Frazier, and Ali has said himself numerous times that Rocky would have been hard to beat. He said "Rocky was better than Joe Frazier, and you saw what Joe Frazier did to me..."

    And during the filming of the Superfight, he said "Rocky was a lot harder to hit with a jab than he looked. I can't imagine fighting him in his prime." If an old, 45 year-old Marciano was able to slip Ali's jab and punish him, imagine what the prime Marciano would have done.
     
  11. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
    Messages:
    11,604
    Likes Received:
    290
    Zora Folley actually boxed a smart match against Ali through the first three rounds. Holmes, with Futch in his corner, could have employed some of the Folley template along with Eddie's particular understanding of Muhammad's strengths and weaknesses to create a very difficult challenge for the GOAT to overcome.

    Larry is a very different animal from Zora, being larger, stronger, and considerably tougher. Folley never recovered from that first knockdown, a punch Holmes would have shrugged off if Muhammad was even able to connect with it. Nor would the back of Larry's head have been available for Ali to pull down on in the clinches as Foreman's was. (Archie Moore identified this as the key tactic in Muhammad's knockout of Big George.)
     
  12. Fighting Weight

    Fighting Weight Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    15,428
    Likes Received:
    3
    I read somewhere that Ali comforted Folleys child after that fight, I think he said something like "no reason to get upset, your dad got his chance too late" or something like that.

    I still think prime Frazier and Tyson are the 2 fighters I'd pick to give prime Ali most problems. I really don't think the best Ali would have had too much trouble against Lewis or Holmes. Marciano would have been a tougher fight than Lewis or Holmes but I still think Ali would have beaten him with the jab..he'd have got hurt in the process though.
     
  13. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2007
    Messages:
    12,714
    Likes Received:
    3,455
    the usual suspects:
    Tyson
    Louis
    Holmes
    Norton
    Marciano

    Others:
    Tunney
    Charles
    Walcott
     
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    58,748
    Likes Received:
    21,576
    Dempsey, Frazier, Marciano
    Louis, Holmes, Johnson, Tunney

    A prime Ezzard Charles

    etc.
     
  15. Ezzard

    Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    19
    Well when we say 'upset' I guess we mean someone who you wouldn't put in the elite bracket at HW.

    I'd go Walcott. Great left hook (very important to beat Ali) and a good defence.