Who has the style to upset a prime Ali

Pmsl, u do know that it was computerised and complete bull**** the marciano ali fight dont u ? 45 yr old marciano slipping and punishing ali :rofl

 

An Ali 'fooling around':
Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, V.Klitschko

An Ali 'focused':
No one of the modern HWs.

 

"Rocky's not as easy to hit as he looks. He hides behind that shoulder with that short little jab you laugh at, until you realize he's setting you up for the bad medicine, that right hand."-Paraphrasing Roland LaStarza (who knows all about prime Marciano) before their title fight rematch. So Ali was hardly the first to make this observation.

(That Rocky was the same age for Murray Woroner's staged performance that Foreman was when he regained the title in real life, while Muhammad would have been at his physical peak if he was still competing then, are realizations I've never been able to separate from their charade, silly as that may seem.)

 

I don't think that Ali would ever have had an easy time with Norton or Young.

He might have been a bit faster when he was younger but they would still have presented him with the same technical puzzles.

 

You're right about Futch. But Ali seemed to thrive against well schooled fighter with more of a text book style. Ellis, Patterson, Quarry - they all posed Ali less trouble than less talented fighters like Chuvalo or Bonavena did. In fact Ali completely dominated them (except for Patterson in the rematch).

Doug Jones points to the opposite, though, but otherwise...

 

I agree about Norton. Less sure about Young. Would he cope with someone so much faster (as well as bigger and stronger) than him? The version of Ali he fought was a mummy in comparison.

 

True. But Norton would not have won without his steady, unorthodox pressure. There have not been many like that. Archie Moore in a way, but not many others.

Ali hated two things: Steady, calculated pressure and unorthodoxy. Norton brought both + good skill and outstanding stamina. That's an unholy mix for Ali.

 

wasn't it montell griffin ?

 

Of course I should have qualified heavyweight champion. (My bad.)

 

I think the early 80's Holmes, and late 80's Tyson would given Ali his toughest fights. But still, its hard to favor anyone over the late 60's Ali.

 

What I took away from the Young fight was that Ali was not comfortable when he was forced to fight on the front foot.

Now based on that, if you had to find sombody to beat Ali, you might throw him in with sombody like Gene Tunney or Tommy Loughran to see what happened. It would be something els you could try.

If my life depended on finding sombody to beat Ali and I had three shots at it I might choose a small defensive fighter who fought on the back foot as one of my picks.

 

Giachetti did become a fine trainer, but your right about your points. There was no better strategist than Futch. Id put Steward and Brooks up there near th top as well.

 

I think Ali was not comfortable showing his flabby body on network television and before a live audience, and would have preferred wearing an untucked tee shirt over his torso.

What I took away from his match with Jimmy is that he may have been telling the truth 3-1/2 weeks later when saying that former Young knockout victim Dunn would have dethroned him if Ali was in the same kind of poor condition. At that stage of Jimmy's career, he would have been a nuisance for most anybody, but I think too much has been made of a match where Muhammad had no business punching for pay, and was better trained for an ice cream eating contest. (I would have demanded my money back. Fortunately, it was aired live for free.)

Through the first five rounds against the shorter counter-punching MacArthur Foster, he made the fight (trying to make good on a fifth round knockout prediction) and looked all right in doing so. (Interestingly, this was at his highest competitive weight until Young.) Tunney and Loughran were movers though, a different kettle of fish from Mac.

 

Yeah, people like to use the Young fight as an example of that. Don't know why really. Sure, Ali was better backing off and countering, but he sure walked Foster and Patterson (rematch) down. He was also pretty good on the offensive against Bugner. So to use a fight where he was old, unmotivated and in terrible shape as proof that he couldn't fight on the front foot is not solid.

 

Ali said Rocky hurt him just from sparring with him. You know they sparred for over 70 rounds and the computer edited how an actual fight with them would have resulted. Plus, the body shots were real.