Who has the style to upset a prime Ali

Ali post exile and pre exile is not the same fighter. He had to fight the likes of Norton and Young mostly flatfooted and often lazing around the ropes. The rare times when Ali was on his toes vs Norton he was fine. I can't see peak Ali giving Norton a sniff in. Norton was no-where near as good as Frazier at imposing pressure. Ali's hands were also much faster earlier. These guys are no chance of winning imo, no chance.

 

Tyson
Louis
Lewis
The brothers Klitchiko
Bowe
Frazier

 

Out of the six that you mention,Louis and Lewis would have the best chance. Although I can't see them actually doing it. Bowe has little chance,and the Bros. Klitscko would have Ziltscko. Imo.

 

Sorry for picking up on my own quote ! But I forgot Tyson. His chance lies between Louis/Lewis and Bowe.

 

About a 1/2 hour ago i watched an old wide world of sports on espn classic where Ali was analyzin all the great heavyweights before him. He said hed beat everyone from Johnson to Louis handily. When it came to Charles/Walcott he said theyd be tough fights,he also said Marciano would be tough cause hed come at him like Fraizer and he didnt like those type of fights.......Personally i think Holmes would have given him trouble. Also Lewis would probably beat a post 1975 Ali,but not the 60s or early 70s version.

 

I always thought that Holmes could beat Ali because of his great jab and ring intelligence.

Frazier would always give Ali trouble.

A skilled big guy like Bowe would also give Ali trouble because Ali wasn't a great defensive fighter, so he would get hit, couped with the fact that Bowe had the stamina to go all the way.

Lewis didn't have the stamina, Tyson didn't have the mental focus.

 

Ali pre exile was a fantastic defensive fighter :huh

 

Good post all around, plus a surprisingly refreshing pick in Witherspoon. Now that I think about it, this could actually develop into a very frustrating match for Ali. Along that same vein, and I'm sure his fans will just lap this up, I think Vitali would also present an awkward task. I see him as intelligent enough and stubborn enough to force Ali to lead. Ali might approach the fight in a way similar to his handling of Joe Bugner, but we all agree Klitschko is much better than that.

 

• Constant pressure, if you are going to put him on the back foot where he wants to be, then give him as little room & time as possible.
• Work the body early on. Take away that dazzling foot-speed, other wise he will dance around you all night. Then come on strong late on.
• Constant head movement aswell. Don't let him time you with that jab & right hand. Don't underestimate his power.
• Cut the ring off, don't allow him room to fire off combinations and simply move around either side.
• Utilize a good left hook. We know he's been down from left hook's before, I think he's a bit open to them.

With all that, I think Frazier obviously stands a great chance prime-for-prime, and obviously won the FOTC. I think Marciano, as much as I've been a critic of him at times, may have a good chance aswell. Similarly, possibly Jack Dempsey, though I think he's an outside shot.

Incidently, I think a quality defensive-minded, intelligent operator might also stand a chance of beating Ali, however bar Jack Johnson they have been all 2 scarce at heavyweight over the years. I don't think Ali liked being the aggressor, nor am I convinced he could attack the body well, and his defensive capabilities lied in his lateral movement. If he stood in front of a Jack Johnson teeing off, he's wide open until he moves. Could Johnson be the man to put Ali on the front-foot uncomfortably, take away his lateral movement in a sense, counter off his jab and take a decision? I'm not sure, he may be a bit too small in a sense.

 

JT, I think this is the point where we should probably advise people to review the first several rounds of Ali-Norton II, where Ken followed and posed while Muhammad danced and punched. During Ali's peak, that's likely the pattern through all 15 rounds. Chasing alone doesn't score points, punching and landing tends to be a little more useful there.

As well conditioned as Ali was for the Norton rematch, Harry Carpenter stated that he only regained a semblance of his old handspeed for the second match with Frazier. (It seemed to remain in place for his upset of Foreman, though George could make lots of opponents look faster.)

A key reason why I tossed out the name of Holmes is because Larry could be much more aggressive with his jab than Norton was. He would not have been posing while Ali was getting off his shots, but making Muhammad defend against something.

Where Jimmy Young is concerned, he continually retreated against Foreman, but also got off first consistently, initiating fire with his pesky double jab. Jimmy was also a dedicated body puncher, something unusual for a boxer with his relative lack of firepower, and he went downstairs on George a number of times. As Muhammad tended to give away body shots, Young could make the scoring with a peak Ali closer than somebody with the GOAT's abilities ought to allow it by targeting his torso for scoring purposes.

Jimmy would need to make Ali come forward while getting off his punches first, essential with Muhammad's superior speed. His lack of power might lull Ali into a false sense of security. Dundee would need to keep him alert to what trickery Young was trying to pull off.

 

One of my favorite heavyweights ever is Jimmy Young, which strikes some as rather odd.

 

the ali v williams & terrell was in a class of his own. jimmy young would be a punching bag against that version.

 

From 1900 to 1950 I'd pick Johnson, Dempsey and Louis to possibly beat a prime Ali. From 1950 to present I'd pick Frazier, Holmes, Lewis and Holyfield (Yes Holyfield) to do the trick. I still can't see any favorites though...Just possibilities.

 

Jack Johnson is a good pick - possibly a bit slow but he's tough and has his own style that would cause problems (ali's number 2 of all-time). to beat ali you gotta be as quick as him - tyson and dempsey would be dangerous early on. any slow movers or punchers haven't got a chance against a peak ali so louis and marciano are out for movement like liston and foreman couldn't win for big slower punchers. frazier was quick so he would always be tough. holmes and lewis would be boring cagey fights but ali has the extra speed factor that would prevail on points win IMO. tunney v ali would be interesting as they were both very smart adaptable fighters in the ring.

 

Prime ****ing Tyson