Who have the GREATEST RESUME of the last 25 years?

I've gone full ******?

1. Go on the free library and read the viewpoints of Lennox and Manny Steward early in 2003.

2. Glen Johnson hasn't got ANYTHING to do with this discussion.

3. Where have I said Roy CHASED him?

4. Danny Green?

Roy got knocked out by Danny Green at almost 41, when he was SHOT!

5. Let me make you look like a fool!

Who hit harder in these fighters:

Antonio Tarver?

Glen Johnson?

Danny Green?

John Ruiz?

I'll give you a clue, it was 16 stone John Ruiz.

Did Ruiz knock Roy out?

NO!

Why not? He hit the hardest.

Mmm.. I wonder, could it possibly have been anything to do with Roy's unbelievable speed of hand and foot etc?

 

That link was to show what he thought about Roy at the time.

We know that he went ahead and fought Vitali, and there's plenty of links leading up to the fight not mentioning anything about retiring,

 

Yes, Lewis would have still being the favourite, but Roy definitely had a chance in my opinion.

 

Well, if Ruiz were Roy's limits, there must not be many "very good" fighters by your standards, because Roy was the only one of this generation or any generation for that matter that started competing at 154, and beat a HW champ.. sorry, but those facts don't lie.

9 he didn't fight? Here is 9 he DID fight, and beat...When comparing him with someone like Calzaghe, it is ANYTHING but cautious..

Toney
Hopkins
Tarver
Ruiz
Hill
Griffin
Johnson
Woods
McCallum

I consider the top 4 ATG wins... the top 2 because the fighters are fellow all time greats, and better than anyone on your list of 9..

Tarver and Ruiz, I consider them all time great wins due to the circumstances... And the lack of fighters in the past able to accomplish such a feat.

There are plenty of very good wins too, when Roy knocked out Griffin, he was rated very highly pound for pound, and was undefeated..

Virgil Hill was a bit past it... But he was caught with a vicious shot that broke his ribs, and would have put him out anytime in his career IMO.. Keep in mind, Hill was good enough still to get a major CW belt after Roy broke his ribs.

Reggie Johnson was past it as well, but was still a very good fighter, with very good skills when Roy dominated him spectacularly.

I can go on and on... On paper names like Hill, Johnson, and Griffin don't stand out, but if you were watching boxing then and familiar with it, they were actually very solid wins.

 

Faulty laptop.

Unbelievable speed of hand and foot?

All those guys who knocked Roy out aren't relevant to this debate.

 

Benn was a King fighter.

Roy should have fought Nunn at 175. It wasn't really viable earlier.

Collins was no great loss. He beat much better fighters than him.

Eubank didn't want Roy.

Dariusz didn't want to leave his comfort zone in Germany.

Gerald and Roy missed each other at 160, and Gerald only had the 1 fight at 168, and that was sadly the fight with Benn.

 

Vitali was a replacement.

Lewis contemplated retirement before Vitali, but he wasn't certain, as he had other options.

He never announced the Vitali fight as his last one. If he'd have performed better he'd have fought on.

 

I will soon, I'm replying in order.

 

1. Roy's chin went downhill fast after the dropped from HW.. In the first Tarver fight, he was dehydrated, and took many flush shots.. At the age of 34, dehydrated, I am sure it can have effect on punch resistance, I have actually read medical reasons of why that would be possible.

2. The shot from Tarver was very very hard, Tarver actually moved his body to load up on it, actually trained for what to do when Roy missed with a lead right, he was waiting for it.... More than that, It caught Roy in the worst position, he never saw it coming, Roy was moving back, with a lazy left hook after missing with the right, something he was fast enough to get away with at his peak..

3. Roy's chin went to hell after getting knocked out by Tarver.. The shots Green and Johnson landed on him, were not that hard, he has taken harder in the fights with...

Toney
Tarver 1
Del Valle
Ruiz
Griffin

and recovered fine.. In the 5th round of the Toney fight, after Toney caught Roy with a very hard counter, the announcers expressed that they were impressed with how Roy could move up in weight and take Toney's best shots... Ruiz also hit Roy with a hard overhand right in in the first round, that hurt Roy, but he recovered.

Honestly I think people put too much into it... By the time Roy showed chin problems, he was in his mid 30's and had fought at HW and dropped back down in a short time.. It is obvious he was not an "iron chinned warrior" but that wasn't his style anyway.... He had a good enough chin, with a good enough defense, to achieve ATG status, and that is all it amounts to.

Edit: Which two times was he "put to sleep" against fighters that were not big punchers?

 

Ducktali,

I'll tell you what, let's stop the name calling, and we'll have a good debate.

Boxing is very scientific.

Roy has never had a good chin.

Almost any fighter can knock another fighter out if given the opportunity.

Look at the guys Roy's fought, even the bums.

Even someone like Glen Kelly.

In my opinion, if Roy had've made a mistake, and Glen had've hit Roy clean with a hard straight right hand, Roy would have gone.

Just about anyone who fought Roy at 175, and even the other weights, could have put Roy to sleep, if they'd have landed.

But Roy's unique skill set including his unbelievable and underrated footwork, kept him out of harms way.

You are looking at a heavy's power, thinking about who's knocked him out, and then assuming that any heavy would win.

But that is a flawed theory because he dominated Ruiz. Ruiz could hit much harder than Tarver and Johnson.

I agree that Roy's chin wasn't great, and if Lennox had've caught him flush, he'd still be asleep now.

But my point is, that version of Lennox might not have had the OPPORTUNITY to have landed flush at that point.

If you think he would have, fine, I respect your opinion.

But I think Roy's speed could POSSIBLY have kept him out of harms way.

Butterbean, although a joke, is a perfect example to use.

If Butterbean caught Roy, Roy would be in dreamland.

Butterbean, although he was a four round fighter, could really hit hard. Roy's chin vs Butterbean's right hand is not a good combination.

But imagine the Ruiz version of Roy fighting Butterbean? He wouldn't have landed a meaningful shot.

That's why it's irrelevant to look at the Johnson knockout. Roy was 35, and he'd been mentally and physically scared from the weight loss and Tarver.

But just because Johnson knocked him out in 2004, it doesn't mean that Lewis DEFINITELY would have done in 2003.

Honest answer, 1 and 2. I don't think it was pure glass though, but it wasn't a good chin.

The ringside doctor for the Glen Johnson fight, said that Roy was so dehydrated, he shouldn't have been fighting, and that's why he was out for so long. But Roy jumped into the ring with Glen just 3 months after Tarver, to erase the devastating loss from his system.

If Tarver had've thrown that same shot in 2000, had they fought, what would have happened?

In my opinion, the exact same thing. However, in my opinion, I don't think Tarver would have had that same opportunity had they fought earlier.

Not true.

Why?

Because we know Ruiz was 16 stone.

We know he hit harder than Tarver and Johnson.

We know he knocked Holy down.

We know Roy had a bad chin.

But we also know that despite all of the above, Ruiz never had the OPPORTUNITY to knock Roy out, because Roy's skills kept him out of harms way.


This is what I'm certain of.

1. ANY heavyweight in history could have beaten Roy and knocked him cold had they had the opportunity.

2. I'm sure that Roy could have beaten a few heavyweights, by using his unique skills and avoiding being hit flush, like he did against Ruiz.

 

In my honest opinion, it wouldn't have been an absolute CERTAINTY that Lewis would have landed a flush right hand, no.

I'm not comparing Wlad K to Lennox, but look at Wlad's fight with Haye as one example.

We all know what would have happened if Wlad had have landed clean don't we?

But Haye's movement frustrated Wlad and he couldn't knock him out.

I think Roy had a genuine chance of avoiding Lennox.

That version of Lennox was miles past his best.

Look, I respect your opinion. But you can't be absolutely certain Lewis would have knocked him out, just on the basis that Johnson, Tarver and Green did it. It doesn't work like that.

 

Hopkins improved leaps and bounds

Funny every boxer that had good hand speed and could box would frustrate the hell out of him.

And it's also funny but the Hopkins of the Trinidad days was the same one to have trouble with likes Calzaghe ,Dawson ,Jones and Taylor ..It's easy to look like a genius in front of a one dimensional plodder ..And another thing in his younger days he was a quick starter naturally that slows with age but the knock on him for the longest was that he was a slow starter ..Every prime version of the guys I mentioned always beats him ..Now if your fight guys who can't really box like Jean Pascal or Kelly Pavlik he will always look amazing ! There is your answer on Hopkins !Leaps and bounds what does he throw more lead rights as he got older ..

 

Hopkins only looked good against guys with no speed and minimal movement ! I have watched all of Hopkins fights ,you must have been watching Bill Hopkins !Hopkins could never deal with anyone with decent hand speed,from Roy to Dawson ..Like I said against 1 dimensional plodders or guys who can't box for **** like a Pascal he looks likes genius !!


And funny but Didnt Bhop figh that same shot Jones that Lendev Koed yet he still couldn't manage to knock him out Yeah Hopkins improved leaps and bounds ! You really DKSAB! And Pavlik wasn't KOing anyone on the level of even a shot Jones !Learn the sport before you come here spitting such nonsense !

 

Yeah, Hopkins loses to Jermain Taylor but beats Prime Roy.

I don't buy all the Hopkins was inexperienced ****... That fight was fought at a high skill level, and Hopkins gets caught with those punches every time..

They are also calling Roy peak, but fail to realize he beat Hopkins pretty much with one freaking hand.

The best way to solve this little theory would have been for the stubborn old ******* to take 60-40 and get his ass kicked.. but we all know he ducked that version of Roy.