Who hit harder?

That one top hitter happens to be likely the toppest hitter in the whole league of top hitters though......

Last I knew Frazier was on his feet as well.

 

Exactly right. It dosnt count if they never step in the ring. And for those that do step into the ring some will find it dosnt count if they can't land at all, and others will find that if they can land some of the time it only counts up to a level.

 

According to McVey it dosnt count if they are on their feet no matter how helpless.

 

You are quite purely and simply a TROLL. We have pointed out endlessly that the thread is not about who is the "better" puncher, but who is the harder hitter. You either lack the kindergarden level smarts to differentiate or are a troll.

If it's the former then i apologise for treating you at an adult level - seriously.

Ali is a "better" puncher than Williams. Larry Holmes is too. Do you think they carried better single shot power?

You ask this question after i have explained ad nauseam that the massive majority of Williams ko's aren't viewable and i have also explained that many of these do indeed have some sort of significance power wise.

Comprehension level or troll?

Comprehension level again lacking. You can ask similar questions of Shavers. Lets not pretend he didn't hit rather hard.

This has nothing to do with one punch power between the pair - for the 15th time.

If you were a poster worth a pinch not on a hate campain i would look deeper into this question. Guess what?

Please list "about 40" Baby Booze (there he is again!!!!!!) types Williams fought.

No-one is putting forth Primo as having elite level power, as much as you would love them too. Again you get ability mixed up with power.

Again you are mixed up. Resume does not equal one punch power - TROLL.

One of the poorest but most exposing posts in the history of ESB. You still don't get it.

Power isn't ranked on resume level. It's entirely possible a mug hits harder than a great, even a great elite level puncher.

Under your dictatorship massive punching lesser fighters cannot be put forth power wise against even feather fisted world champs.

Incredible stuff.

I have been maneuvering for this all day and it brings me immense pleasure that it has come off.

April 22 2015 you said this in a Marciano - Williams who hit harder thread....

Incredibly it also shows you seemingly understand the differences between power and quality!!!!

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/who-hit-harder-cleveland-williams-or-rocky-marciano.534897/

Two faced much?

Do you like apples?

 

Credibility zero ^

 

I need to segregate this individual moment in case people are bored of reading all the other tripe and glaze over it.

I had been maneuvering for this all day and it brings me immense pleasure that it has come off.

April 22 2015 you said this in a Marciano - Williams who hit harder thread....

Incredibly it also shows you seemingly understand the differences between power and quality!!!!

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/who-hit-harder-cleveland-williams-or-rocky-marciano.534897/

 

^^^

OUCH!

 

Well I'm glad I put a smile on your face even if it seems a little creepy that you would spend so much time pouring over years worth of my posts only to discover that I said two years ago what I am saying now. Williams had power up to a level.

"Not being able to catch World class fighters with his power" equals not being able to exhibit power at a higher level.

So what if I said Williams had huge power?


Just today I said the exact same thing "Williams, Comiskey and Retzlaf, They were are super human punchers at that level. But it was just that level. The power was rarely featured once it got to even fringe guys."

Super human power and huge power. I said it. But that power vanished against good fighters. So it cannot be brought into play can it?

So did he have huge power? Yes!

up to a level.

 

JohnThomas1

In fairness to everyone, I brought Carnera into the debate in response to claims Williams "bulled" Liston around the ring and the implication of a connection between physical strength and punching power.

 

Shoklab mentioned him completely separate to your good self.

 

"difference between being a powerful puncher and an effective puncher."

I think I understand where you and others are coming from, but I have doubts. A man could have great punching power but be too inept a fighter to actually land his punches on a skilled opponent.

A think a good analogy would be a baseball slugger who can't hit major league pitching. He would hit the ball a long ways if he hit the ball, but he can't. Okay.

But, I think you're confusing this with another issue. To continue the baseball analogy, Frazier is like a hitter who hits them over the fence and into the second deck, but never over the roof and out onto the street. Williams is credited with having over-the-roof power. But the only way to prove that is to actually hit it over the roof and he never did. In fact, he never reached the second deck like Frazier did. He just never did what you are crediting him as being able to do.

Also, I think a flaw of your position is the hidden premise that Williams was somehow too inept to land his punches, but this flies in the face of his being able to hit Liston, a world champion, a lot actually, and from film, being able to land on other people.

Continuing the baseball analogy, he made contact consistently, but just never hit the ball all that far.

 

I did a google search (without your name involved)

The search took me approx 45 seconds to find a thread i wanted to scour. It just happened to be an ESB one. Within 45 seconds i came across your post and realised instantly i could set you up to make an absolute fool of yourself with next to no effort at all.

I was 100% correct.

I would never scour your posts as you are an absolute non entity in the big scheme of things.

 

Just on Cleveland Williams, I think his most impressive knockout--other than over the young Terrell--was probably over John Holman. Holman was at the end of his career, but was a big heavyweight of the era with a very dangerous punch. Williams stretched him for the full count in 7 rounds.

Holman is an interesting comparison with Williams. Statistically, he seems an ordinary puncher. He had 45 fights, won 28, lost 17, and drew 1. He scored the relatively low total of 17 KO's. But by rep he was a fierce puncher and his list of knockout victims might be nearly as impressive as anyone who never held a title--

Ezzard Charles, Elmer Ray, Cesar Brion, Boardwalk Billy Smith, Bob Satterfield, Willie Bean, Larry Watson, Julio Mederos.

*It is intriguing to study the non-champions who were big punchers.

 

Nice post with no preconceived values.