Who hit harder?

My view is that weight of opponent testimony counts past a certain point.

I probably wouldn't have Williams marked down as one of the hardest punchers ever based on his resume, but there are just too many opponents/sparring partners who were like "wow".

 

He was an outstanding specimen. The doctors who patched him up after his shooting said he had the best constitution they had ever seen on a man. He lost enough blood to kill three men.

-And he punched hard. I see where the legend came from.

 

Perhaps. But we're not talking performance, we're talking pure force of punches. You're constantly mixing these apples and oranges up.

I'd also add that Williams looked the physically stronger of the two in their first fight. He was backing Liston up and pushing him off. I doubt very much that Frazier would be doing the same thing.

So if the original debate was whether Williams punched harder and was physically stronger than Joe, I'd say he was. Joe was the much better fighter, though.

 

But Louis did not get his nose broken by Mauriello ,neither did he say, "he punches as hard as me,he just can't take it as well"

 

I'm sure Louis was complementary about Tami. It would be unusual for Louis to use the exact same words as Sonny did about Williams mind you, but it was a similar situation. Louis got hit hard then came back and won early. Liston got hit hard then came back and won early.

 

I'm not so sure about that. Getting tagged has a habit of backing a fighter up and Joe landed a lot of punches.

Ramos was a big guy about Williams size. He met joe head on like Williams would have. We all know what happened there.

 

IMO Cleve Williams hit harder but had horrible balance...it wasn't his one or two shot punches he had bad footwork even before the .357 magnum gut shot....when it comes to pure power he had it but what he did not have was the skill to plant his feet and shift his hips and stay balanced while throwing more than one or two punches he lacked the skills to leverage his power against good fighters.

Frazier on the other hand was well schooled had great balance and could throw alot of hard punches with balance and leverage....he had good power.

You could see Williams hitting Liston hard and doing damage.

 

There is a point to this but before going down as a punching legend hasn't a fighter got to make the leap into doing it in the ring?

Some have questioned Fraziers power because a lot of his famous victims were saved on their feet. If that's ok to question, why can't we question who it was of relevance Williams put down for a full count?

It does not seem fair.

 

its just when you said he rendered unconscious 8 out of 37 opponents its kinda infers, more than likely unintentionally, that hes not quite the puncher hes made out. There were quite a few fighters, like you say, who just about beat the 10 count but where completely spent when they did arise and in no state to continue, job done regardless . I think that same situation happened for many big punchers, elite punchers too but as long as the W shows on the records they dont care, but then again you aint saying otherwise so im digressing. Just an aside, but I was thinking about Joe not long ago and for a short enough career fightwise, he was right in the mix pretty early. There wouldnt be too many heavyweight champs who had their first 2yrs as a pro like joe had

 

Bingo. Guys like these and say a John Mugabi (who i don't everly rate as a fighter overall but as a puncher, well...) obviously possess enormous power but were lacking other things overall as fighters to overly cash in on it.

It's also a mark of respect to other boxers that such power could be overcome and nullified whether in beating said fighters or in not being stopped by them.

 

Newsflash 1 - Williams being 10 places behind Frazier in a top 100 list encompassing all weights divisions really isn't "well behind".

Newsflash 2 - The list is "Greatest" punchers.

 

Agree with all this except the highlighted.

In a thread clearly asking for "Who hit harder" the fact of who "was the overall better fighter" doesn't matter one iota.

 

I would like an example from you of the hardest blow Williams landed.

All the other hard punchers have a hi light reel of knockouts to chose from. And from it they have chilling knockouts that are regarded as their best demonstration of hard hitting. Louis knocking out Braddock. Marciano knocking out Walcott. Liston knocking out Westphal. Frazier knocking out Foster. Shavers knocking out Ellis. Cooney knocking out Norton. Etc etc.

What was Williams chilling knockouts?

 

Ramos quit.