Who hit the hardest: Ali, Holmes, or Usyk?

He ended Bellew and Dubois better than Ali ended anyone.

 

Ali wasn`t ready for that punch, he went on to take harder shots from Shavers and Foreman.

 

Yeah, knocked out by the 6`2 Povetkin.

 

@BCS8
https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/306743
https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/393588
Ruiz compared to "6'0" Francisco Diaz and "6'0" Alvero Morales just to hammer the point, and you think this dude is 6'2 ? Lol

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He's like 6'1 / 6'2 and Ruiz absolutely doesn't look 6'0 there. Ali himself said he's 6'2 btw, he is bigger than Ruiz but only by a bit.

 

Dubois was barely 23 when Joyce stopped him and 24 when Lerena dropped him.

And similarly Dubois has beaten Miller and Hrgovic in brawls where he got tagged a lot by really heavy shots that boomed across the stadium.

I mean since losing to Joyce on a broken eye socket (Chuvalo got stopped by Frazier for the same exact reason) Dubois has taken horrific shots from Hrgovic and Miller without going down and has taken one of the hardest punches Ive ever seen from Joshua without falling and sparked the guy out seconds later.

True but Lerena didn't stop Dubois, he just hurt and dropped him. I could agree if Lerena landed a regular punch and chinned Dubois for the count, but he just landed good shots that hurt Dubois.

 

I would say Holmes. He stopped a lot of prime big men.

 

Point made with sniper precision.

If the Cooper KD of a pre prime, yet to be fully physically developed and goofing off Ali meant as much as some people are attempting to suggest and extrapolate upon - then the extrapolations would’ve been borne out in Ali’s own later career - which of course, they weren’t - far from it.

The “Cooper” treatment and wayward conclusions are similar to the “Conn”’treatment - that being the overemphasis on Louis’ own difficulties with Conn in fight 1 - a treatment and conclusions that do not reconcile at all with the full landscape of Joe’s actual career and successes otherwise -

 

I dunno about the larger head man. It’s more the neck muscles preventing swivel/shifting of the head - “think” a watermelon spiked onto a meat skewer -

I don’t think there’s any head large enough that would provide for significant resistance in its own right. How much does an average head even weigh anyway?

I don’t know if the difference in mass between an average head and humongous melon would make much of practical difference in boxing.

Though fair to say there might be a reasonable correlation between head size and natural neck size - but not always.

Larry Holmes had a great chin but he also had the proverbial peanut head, as Ali liked to point out -

And sorry LARRY, I always viewed that barb as a tad nasty - along with Neanderthal Man, as applied by an otherwise, normally polite Ken Norton .

And people wonder why Larry was pissed all the time??? He quite obviously didn’t get no respect.

 

Excellent points.

Apologies, I didn’t read the whole thread and just posted on neck muscles.

Legs are very important as you say - I imagine you could be cerebrally well buzzed but a good set of legs could still hold you up in their own right - lending to fighters being able to remain on their feet even though they’re literally “out” or partially “out” otherwise.

Ali arguably had the best developed legs among all heavies - calves and thighs. Obviously necessary also for all the dancing he did in his prime.

Re the integrity of the legs - the reverse can be true also - a guy like Hearns could be reasonably clear headed but those damn pipe cleaner legs of his could sometimes betray him in their own right, seeing Tommy skittle this way and that while still reasonably cognisant.

Notably also, Ken Norton’s relatively skinny legs were at odds with his physique otherwise.

Mike Tyson was highlighted doing those famous, strenuous (and perhaps somewhat dangerous) neck exercises with his head to the ground.

It was only years later when I saw footage of one Sonny Liston doing pretty much the same neck exercises in the late 50s/early 60s.

In his prime, Liston trained assiduously also - coming into his fights in terrific shape - including with a discernible six pack.

 

Look at who Ali stopped compared to Usyk and Holmes, it ain't even close,,
1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Usyk

 

Definitely strong and thick neck muscles help, and may be more important than the size of the head. Guy with iron chins typically do those gruesome neck routines to strengthen their necks and shoulders. Golovkin in particular I remember did a lot of that. The key point is that you want to reduce the speed with which the head is accelerated from a punch. KOs happen because the brain is literally bounced off the inside of the skull. So the more resistance the ensemble holding the brain has to being accelerated, the less damage the soft squishy thing inside takes. That would indeed include head size, although the real question is 'how much' does it help? Boxers with great punch resistance also make a practise of tucking their chins in. The chin is a natural point of leverage, and a clean hook on the button means a lot of torque is generated.

 

Yep, it’s def. all about limiting the shift of the head and resulting brain swish.

It’s fair I think to say that part of our impression of how hard is punch is how much is twists the head - but then, based exactly upon what we’re taking about, that shifting of the head also depends on the neck muscle strength, or lack thereof, of the recipient.

A guy like, say, Chuvalo, with a bull neck, could take heavy shots without too much pronounced shifting of his head - another guy might take the same shots and have his head spun like Linda Blair - making the very same punches, of the exact same force, look like they’d been thrown by King Kong.

This is a very nice head swivel, Ali nailing Foreman with the right hand: -

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/ali-v-foreman-battle-greats

 

It's made even more complicated when you factor in fighters like Ali and Duran who turn their head on impact to lessen the punch.

Chin is an interesting factor. Mike Tyson, comic book build, superb chin when it comes to a single shot - Ali, elite chin, doesn't take a single shot as well as Tyson IMO, but more likely to survive a barrage of shots to the head and then takes a significantly better body shot IMO.

Chin is often about having a high degree of fitness and mental resolve as well as it is physical musculature.