Who in the last ten years was stronger than Liston?

that's because the proportions are different as one gets bigger. but tell me, how is you do not know this?

of course no ones denying that more weight can give you some kind of advantage if its used properly. Just as more skill, more stamina etc do. but you are claiming absolutism in giganticism.

 

liston would rip walds head off, wlad got wiped out by journeymen easily enough again and again, nevermind someone of sonnys calibre.

He has a fair chance of stopping lewis.

 

Those who actually did fight Lewis and Wlad tend to remark upon how incredibly strong they were. Are they mistaken?

In Wlad's case, and in Rahman's, their strength is correlated in the weight room. And before all the old fuddy duddys chime in, YES, I know it's not exactly the same thing but is more relevant than how many cords of wood they chop.

Now, if you want to argue that Liston would beat Wlad or Lewis, I many not agree but would think you have a much better argument.

 

I didn't say they weren't very strong, so what you jiving about again?

 

I can't believe you weren't taken to task on this one.

When did ****ey ever give Holmes life and death? Holmes was not stretched in any way, shape or form and it was an easier match than many of his other title defenses. Weaver for example gave him myriads more trouble. Even Snipes fleeting moment towers above how close ****ey got to troubling him. The most trouble ****ey had him in was when he landed a crushing left hook to his nutsack.

Don't worry about counting rounds, Holmes fought a cautious fight against a powerful puncher and looked to take any chance ****ey may have had at all right out of the equation. If he was more aggressive he would have stopped him way sooner imo, even when he had him hurt he was still very careful. But he got the job done and was quite clinical excepting letting him off the hook early.

You call it a "war" in the last sentence. It definitely wasn't a war.

 

Who knows? And how is it possible to prove? I also think it is ridiculous to compare someone who trained naturally to modern heavyweight boxers, who lift weights and take PEDs, creatine etc.

You aren't comparing like with like.

 

I don't think a Sonny Liston on PEDs and a weight training program would weigh 212lbs, mate.

 

Were Lewis, Valuev or Waldo on PED's?

On a fairly limited power regimen Waldo was/is able to do 4 reps of 400 pounds on bench.... with really long levers... that is a whole lot more indicative of natural talent than any smoke and mirrors.

 

I don't necessarily mean illegal drugs, Seamus, but I seriously doubt Vlad is achieving those results on 3 Weetabix, either!

That's not a knock on him, by the way, I am just wary of comparing modern big guys with oldies. Look at rugby players now compared to the 70's, they are generally much more muscled. What's changed?

Modern training and "help" is transforming athletes. Evander Holyfield would never have got that strong and muscular in Liston's day, and guys like Williams, Liston and Valdes would be much bigger now.

Scary to think that Ben Johnson was lifting 350lbs at 175lbs bodyweight for 10 reps! Of course this was due to steroids, but it's still mind-blowing.

 

It's not like Dempsey was getting dragged around the ring by Willard.

Or Louis Carnera

 

Okay, so my intuition as a non boxing fans tells me "The bigger man should win."

But then I see someone like Joe Louis, and they remind me that punching might be more important. Hear me out.

If size is that important, how can Joe Louis punches effect Carnera and Billy Conn similarly? If size is that big of an advantage, shouldn't one clean punch from Louis knock small Conn out? How come Conn and Carnera don't show a huge difference in taking 200lb Joe Louis punches?

You could say that Louis was older, Conn was faster, etc. But the argument people make about size, it doesn't make sense that Conn could take the punches of a man who put down Carnera or Baer the way Louis did.

Right?

 

Did either try to drag their opponents around the ring? :think

What's your theory-- Joe Louis was as strong as Primo Carnera?

 

No, you're confusing ability to take a punch with strength (the topic of the thread). Some people take punches better than others, either because they have "better chins" or the ability to ride and avoid punches. But to your example, I think that Primo ate a ton of hard, fully-loaded punches that quite likely would have dropped Conn.

 

Can someone post the video of Wladimir Klitschko doing 4 reps on 400 pounds bench press please ?



Thanks.

 

Why not ?

I've been around strengths sports and strength gyms for over 20 years. I learned a long time ago that you can't judge a man's strength by how big and ripped he is compared to someone else.
And the difference in size between Liston and Wlad wouldn't even be considered much.