Who is best out of these fellows?

Ali for me.

 

That's about right. I voted for SRL, but it is damn hard to choose between Ali, Duran, and SRL. Those 3 could be interchanged and put in the top 3 in any order.

 

Duran is so overrated. I will never understand. A string of weak title defenses at lightweight, losing to the best lightweight that he fought. Finally moving up to his more natural weight at Welter, which he had been weighing for years... having a GREAT win over Leonard. However, Leonard clearly showed that he was a level above Duran in the rematch, completely stealing Duran's heart. Then, Duran goes on to lose against all of the best fighters in his era. Duran wasn't even close to being the best fighter in his own era, yet people rank him #1 of all time? Just amazing.

 

My thoughts exactly...I don't think he's overrated, but I certainly couldn't put him above Leonard seeing as how he was outclassed and destroyed in the rematch. Ali IMO is overrated too. The man protests against wars and talks a lot of ****, but to say he's done more than Leonard is a bit much. Ali beat the likes of Foreman and Frazier...I feel Hagler, Hearns and Duran are far better opponents than those two. Lighter weight opponents hone far better skill sets than the heavies thus making their opposition and talent greater than the above mentioned.

Ali gets far too much credit for what COULD'VE been because of his absence due to being locked up..."He could've done so much more"...well yea...and Duran could've beaten Leonard and all other tests he failed to beat too but he didn't...and neither did Ali when the man was in prison.

Leonard is the clear leader here.

Leonard
Ali
Duran

the rest to me are all somewhat interchangeable...except Calzaghe...he's clearly the joke of the list and the bottomfeeder of these fighter's shoes

 

Bar none the best CW of all time. 4 time (should be 5 time after that travesty of judging vs Valuev) HW champion. Absolutely LEGENDARY resume. Amazing skills for a HW. And my favorite quote (from Larry Merchant) "If Evander Holyfield weighs 205, his heart weighs 204!".

Of HWs, I ONLY have Ali above him (in a p4p sense, not an all time list of the best HWs...on that I have him 7th)...accomplishments, resume, skills, h2h ability, longevity, etc...easy to make a case for him.

 

Ali, no doubt about it, boxing wouldn't be the same without him.

 

1. Muhammad Ali

2. Roberto Duran

3. Sugar Ray Leonard

4. Floyd Mayweather

5. Roy Jones jr

6. Joe Calzaghe

7. Bernard Hopkins

8. Mike Tyson

9. Evander Holyfield

10. Lennox Lewis


1-5 are pretty solid.... 6-9 can be switched in any order.... no10 is solid.

 

JC's on the list of choices?



Good joke.


Should retitle: Who doesn't belong in this list? Would make it a lot easier that's for sure.

 

Ok then...did Rojas have a 3-4 record in those alamanacs or books? Thats all Im saying..you chucked the numbers out there, obviously you got that off boxrec but as I said I almost certain that is not his true record.


I cant see a shread of evidence to suggest Duranwas a "natural" welterweigh either...the man never fought even close to the weight until he was 27..He looked fine making lightwieght..in fact I would say his third win over DeJesus to unify was his best performance at the weight.

Im not a boxrec fiend either...I have books, I have access to old newspapers that are saved electronically online ..I use other resources and most of all I make up my own mind from watching as much film as I can on a wide range of fighters...Ray Lampkin was a pretty good fighter, a top contender of his time, in a lot of people's eyes to top contender to Duran's title when he fought him. You only need to watch that fight to see he was far from a weak name on Duran's record...He was a very good amateur and watch his fight with DeJesus to see how he did against another guy of world class pedigree. He retired only a year later at the age of 29...a lot of people think that fight took a lot out of him and after being hopitalized after the fight...he was never quite the same fighter..he retired early and started up his own construction company I believe.

Takayama was made to look bad by Duran but he really wasnt that bad..And I cant see how you think he never beat a world ranked contender..He beat Lomeli, Yamambe and drew with Ishimatsu..Lomeli was ranked at the time he beat him, Lomeli had only just won an eliminator and It was my understanding he had forfeited his shot a title because he lost a non-title bout at a higher weight and Yamambe I can only assume was or just about seeing he went on to challenge for a world title some 18months after Takayama beat him.
He also lost a controvesial decision to Robertson only a year before Jimmy challenged Duran for the title.

All you have come back with is obviously going throught boxrec again and seeing what those fighters had done and went on to do with out putting those fights into context and displaying a knowledge of those fighters overall ability.


And I have never had Duran a top 3 ATG...not on any list..even when I was 12 and he was one of the few greats I knew of...I could always find several people to go in front of him.

I personally think he is the best all round fighter I have ever seen and best pure boxing talent...Ive got about 45 of his fights on DVD and a few more on VHS..plus Ive seen maybe a dozen on top of that...I also own or have seen a **** load of Leonard's, Robinson's, RJJ, Too Sharp, Ali, PBF's fights..all great, amazing fighters aswell..Its not like I think Duran is leaps and bounds ahead of these guys, it really comes down to personal opinion and preference in the end. I just think, in response to the thread title, in his prime Roberto was best of these guys I have seen.

 

Duran. Ali second.

 

Ali fought and beat the best in an excellent career. He was also able to adapt his style as he aged to accommodate his decline in natural ability. His mental toughness is second to none in history. Check his resume.

 

Ali before vietnam, unstoppable

 

Ali
Duran

Every other name on the list is subject to questions regarding stimulants.

 

Duran in first, followed by Ali and SRL.

 

Maybe you should move on to film, so you can, you know, actually watch the fighters fight rather than placing all of your opinions on what you see on paper.

Boxrec is far from complete. It doesn't really make a difference with Duran, as most of his opponents were noted well enough, but for older generation fighters and their opponents Boxrec is far from complete. That is fact. Some of the guys on Jimmy Wilde's record for one, are listed as 0-0-0 on Boxrec despite the fact that they were already champions.

You're the one who hasn't done a lick of research. The fact that someone hadn't won a world title doesn't change the fact that they were considered world class and worthy opponents at the time, many of them actually being accomplished and skilled fighters.

Esteban Dejesus
Ken Buchanan
Ernesto Marcel
Vilomar Fernandez
Saoul Mamby
Guts Suzuki
Hiroshi Kobayashi

Not to mention guys like Hector Thompson, Edwin Viruet, Ray Lampkin, etc and guys of considerable ability. This all at LW during Duran's actual prime. The losses you're considering when trying to make the futile case that Duran is overrated all took place at higher weights against bigger fighters, all when Duran was past prime himself. Why not try to get some perspective?

He beat Leonard when both were at their best, convincingly. That fight was by far the most telling of their series, regardless of any excuses you yourself want to make. And you're calling out Duran for just that.