Carlis Ortiz my # 4 Lightweight Or Manuel Ortiz my # 4 Bantamweight If you were compiling a list whom would you say was greater? And how wide would the gulf be?
Carlos Ortiz by FAR for me. There’s not nearly as much footage on Manuel which is unfortunate but he was clearly as excellent fighter. Carlos may not necessarily look a more spectacular fighter but he was just a shot dominant in his prime and his prime lasted longer and vs. much better opposition and on the way up before he even beat Joe Brown for the 135 title he’d gone through a hell of a list at 140. Manuel was great, Carlos was very, very great.
I tend to agree. Last time I did a list Carlos was about 15 spots ahead. Just rethinking it, and their common last name and having them both rated top 5 in their divisions led me to relooking at it. I think Carlos work at LWW gives him the added boost.
Carlos, for sure. His staple division is just stronger historically than Manuel's, and he had better names to prove himself against at Lightweight than Manuel did at Bantam. Throw in the fact that he also added a 140 lb title, and Manuel's puzzling inconsistency in non-title fights, and I'd say it's pretty clear cut. Carlos all the way.
Another vote for Carlos. Still very underrated even though that is usually a term associated with his name at this point.
It looks like it's still unanimous, since I'm voting for Carlos Ortiz as well. Manuel's title wins were awesome, but he was inconsistent in non-title tilts. I've maintained for sometime on this forum that Carlos has a case for being the multi-time/multi-division champion who had the best title-winning victories across his multiple title winning efforts based on the nature of outcome and quality of opponents: TKO 2 Kenny Lane, TKO 4 Ishmael Laguna, W 15 Joe Brown. A key part of that analysis on my part is that I consider Kenny Lane among the greatest fighters to never hold a title. Throw in Carlos' wins over Flash Elorde (X2), Loi, and Sugar Ramos, plus the fact that about 2/3s of his defenses took place on enemy soil and he clearly has the edge of Manuel Ortiz.
