Who is greater? Manny Pac. or Roberto Duran?

That last comment is not true. The Leonard win for Duran in 1980 was not that impressive. He took a young fighter with a young wife, insulted him and made him fight his fight. True Ray didn't have to, but he did. And Ray knew better than anyone else he made a mistake. And this was not just talk. Ray came back and boxed and used lateral movement. That comment you made is not true. I think Tommy Hearns beating Virgil Hill in 1991 is better than Duran's win over Leonard in 1980. Had Duran beat Ray in 1981 that would have been impressive. But we saw what happened after the first fight when Duran fought Ray. He would lose easily a decision. Facts are there.

 

Being dominant with that level is that going to make Duran top 10 ATG. and you say 5, I say it does not make him top 10 or top 15. he had to fight and beat Hall of famers. Duran is not rated that high in the welterweight rankings, yet Duran fans think his win over Ray (a decision win) ranks him as an ATG. Solely on beating Ray? Again, the rematch Ray just decided to box and he outclasses Duran. Decimating Davey Moore? Davey had 11 fights and that is not to even take into consideration his dental surgery that week. Giving Hagler a tough fight? He lost. He didn't win. Winning makes a guy great. Hagler fought a docile fight and when it got to the late rounds he knew he didn't pour it on enough (expecting an aggressive Duran), so all Hagler did was pour it on and win the late rounds and he won. That fight was not exciting. No one was on the edge of their seats. In a rematch Hagler would have knocked out Duran in the midrounds. Then the 8 months later in a unification for thier 154 pound titles, Tommy outclasses Duran in 2 rounds and stops him. Iran in 1989 was a middleweight. Not a lightheavyweight. Fact again. Duran did not beat enough Hall of fame fighters to be ATG 5 or 10 or 15 for that matter. he was 1-5 (0) against the fab four in the 1980's. If he was 5-1 (4) that would be ATG 5 or 10. he wasnt.

 

These smilies are about me saying Tommy's win over Virgil was better in my mind than Duran's over Ray. It was. Tommy beat a man who was champion for 4 years and had 10 title defenses and was 31-0. Ray was 27-0 had one title defense and had the title 7 months. That is something to laugh at? The only thing you have to say is that Ray in the end is a greater fighter than Virgil. But at that point in 1980 like I said so many times, Ray was inexperienced and didn't use his lateral movement and fought Duran's fight. But Ray came back after learning to stick to a gameplan and easily beat Duran in the rematch. And to prove this was not a fluke, he beat Duran in almost the same exact way in December of 1989 in a rubbermatch. I am bringing facts.