Who is greater? Manny Pacquiao or Roberto Duran?

The rubbermatch shows that Ray could beat Duran easily just by fighting his fight. Barkley struggled with Duran that year of 1989 and Ray beat him easily just by not engaging with Duran. Hearns was the one fighter who beat Duran by engaging in a fight, but the others fought Duran more to win a decision, as you usually have to beat Duran. Obviously Hearns had more power than Hagler or Benitez or Leonard.

 

Duran moving up and beating Sugar Ray Leonard, is better than any 3 wins put together on Pac's resume in my opinion.

 

Had he beaten Ray in 1981 I would have agreed, or had he beaten Ray in the rematch, but losing so easily in the rematch and not beating the 1981 Ray is why I think the win was not as great. Ray was a much more complete fighter after the first Duran fight. He learned.

 

I don't think Ray ever actually got better. Watch his fights with Benitez, Price, Mayweather, and Green. Absolute monster.

 

You scored Duran/Leonard I 11-4 in favor of Hands of Stone?

Interesting.

 

Haven't you heard? Somehow Ray won a gold medal and took Benitez's title while keeping his hymen intact. Green as hell in the first fight, boxing master in the second fight.

 

he didn't need the mental advantage in those fights, the physical was enough. Duran introduced him to prefight mental games and fighting whose fight. After getting mad and fighting Duran's fight and almost winning ( as Ray said "I almost beat him at his own game. I wanted to beat that man at his own game") Ray said that. Well after he fought Duran's fight and lost, he said he knew he would beat Duran easily if he boxed and used his speed. Ray said later "I was going in there to have fun and I had fun. It was easy".And he did. Made him quit. Ray learned that the mental aspect of the game was just as important as the physical. With Hearns he never got the advantage, but with Hagler he was so nice in the prefight that Marvin came out righty in rounds one and two. Had Ray engaged in arguing with Marvin in prefight, Marvin would have come out more aggressive and Ray knew down the stretch Marvin's strength might have been too much.

 

I'm not discussing this with you MAG. That could only serve a purpose if you had an open mind, but you've already condemned Duran to mediocrity.

 

so you do not think fighters improve from the amatuer days or after winning a title? Part of the intangibles of boxing.

 

No I have not condemned him to mediocrity. I think he was great, just not a top 5-10 ATG. I said more like 25-30. 25 to 30 is a great position. His lightweight reign alone gets him there, and then his Leonard win showed he could use mental games for an advantage and Moore and Barkley prove he still had skills to win when he could fight his fight. I have not been disrespectful about Duran, I just don't think he has the wins to get 5-10 ATG. I am not sure who is greater Duran or Pacman. I am not sold either on Pacman's wins the last 4 fights as much as other people on ESB seem to be, but he is a great fighter.

 

considering that SRL knocked out a prime Benitez in the 15th round BEFORE fighting Duran... I think its safe to say he wasn't green

 

I didn't say that...I implied he was obviously not green. Because he wasn't. Nor do I think he went from green to great from his first fight with Duran to his immediate next fight with Duran.

 

Sugar Ray Leonard's three opponents prior to fighting Roberto Duran in Montreal were Davey Boy Green, Pete Ranzanzy, and Wilfred Benitez. All three fights are available to watch on Youtube, and needless to say, Ray looked stunning in all three outings. People thought he may have killed Green, and Benitez, the master boxer, was out-boxed, and out-punched.

Now MAG, go watch Ray Leonard against Larry Bonds and Ayub Kalule, and tell me that you see significant improvement in Leonard's ability.

 

how can it not be duran

 

some very funny posts