Who is greater? Manny Pacquiao or Roberto Duran?

Not long ago I posted the Green knockout. That was perfectly wicked. Especially considering Leonard was a simplistic caveman just finding his way back then...

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnrcBMvkPxw[/ame]

It's a wonder this kid ever amounted to anything.

 

Duran beat a prime Leonard in my opinion, no if and or buts about it.

 

I think Duran did Ray a great favor and made him greater. Ray saw the magic of how Duran could make Ray fight his fight. I think he was almost shocked at how Duran did that and amazed. Ray already had the great skills, but the mental aspect (which Duran showed him) was important and it made him complete. Later he tried doing that to other fighters like Duran did to him, and he only really did it with Hagler. But to be honest Ray worked on Hagler before that fight for years a little. I think Ray always knew he was going to fight Hagler even after Kevin Howard. He was waiting for the right time. I remember Ray said Hagler came to his restaurant in Maryland once and they were friends, I think Ray developed that friendship a little because he thought he could soften Hagler up in case he did fight him someday. This sounds far fetched, but Ray would do anything for an advantage. I never trusted Ray. I think Duran showed him how to set things up for advantage in fights and Ray went ever further. Even the knockdown by Howard, was played by Ray to make him looked washed up and he didn't have it anymore. He knew he was better than that. Well I am ramblings. My point is all that mental stuff Ray did later with retiring and unretiring -had a little to do with Duran. Ray hardened up and learned the whole game mental, glove size, ring size, attitude, timing etc. Ray learned the whole game. Then he became greater. When he fought Duran in June of 1980 he was not the same guy he was later. The lesson he learned from Duran was invaluable. And that little nudge Duran showed him was why he beat Duran so easily in Nov. He just had to learn the lesson of fighting his fight.. Using his advantages.

 

Your long-winded replies are overshadowed by video evidence.

Just leave it at that, MAG.

 

After that bout, Price insisted it was the most unrefined asswhooping he'd ever received, adding "I guess he got the job done, but he looked like **** doing it, to me. Rank amateur."

 

Well Kalule was a tough fight for Ray. He had a little struggle with Kalule's southpaw stance, but he won against a good champion. My point is that Ray still had to fight and boxing is tough, but Duran taught him to get all the advantages outside the ring. If Ray had fought Duran's fight in the rematch in Nov. he would have lost also. He knew he had to box Duran. Ray can use all the prefight games he wants, but nothing would have won him that fight against Norris. That was a Ray mistake. He came in too light and also he seemed to want to lose in a way. Who knows. I never understood the Norris loss. Terry was fast, but Ray looked terrible.

 

:rofl Yeah, I'm not reading hist reply. It's worse than my back and forth with tommygun in the Ali VS Valuev thread. Same debate almost.

 

If Manny is somehow able to clear out the current crop at WW, then I think he'll have a real argument. Until then...

 

not really. Ray lost to Duran and he beat him after he learned his lesson. He still beat Kalule and Hearns. By the way , about the mental games and Ray, Hearns turned the tables on Ray when he suggested Ray used steroids in 1989. Ray was furious. I think Tommy rattled him with that comment, and Tommy didn't think Ray was on steroids, but he knew that would get to Ray mentally and it did.

 

I'm wondering if MAG is Ray Jr?

Look mate, I think your dad was supreme and he got revenge in the return bout, but his ass got tapped in Montreal.

 

Did Duran UD Leonard in the first fight or was it a Majority decision? I thought I remembered one judge having it at a draw.

 

I wish I was Ray Jr. Does that mean I can have some of Ray Sr. money and get a new car and buy a house?

 

So...in a way...he was still green when he fought Hearns, but was later more mature because of the lesson Hearns taught him about not getting rattled and...Nope. Can't keep a straight face. And I agree with Addie. Your dad was awesome.

 

I think Duran taught him the lesson which made him a complete great. Ray was already a great fighter physically and that is what got him to beat Benitez and be able to go 15 fighting Duran's fight, although I think had he fought the same 1979 Benitez when Ray was his 1981 boxing self, he would have stopped Benitez maybe sooner and had a relatively easier fight, just like after the Duran fight he beat Duran and made him quit. Which shows how great Ray was to regroup and learn a lesson so thourougly. As far as the Benitez fight, that fight was a physical fight and Ray was busted up and couldn't even go to his postfight party. Duran taught him to fight his fight always, even if he can win a physical fight, fight the fight which gets you the most advantages. What Duran did was he made Ray a great mental fighter, and after that Ray put the physical and mental aspects together.