While Ali has the better accomplishments, is the better trash talker, has more “legend” behind his career, and is arguably better than Holmes, to me Holmes always had the better fights and was generally more entertaining in the ring. Who do you think is more entertaining, and why?
Ali. Think of the fights that have names associated with Ali. The Thrilla in Manila, The Rumble in the Jungle, The "What's my name" fight. All more entertaining because of what happened in them, things like the rope-a-dope. Ali would out box his opponents, chat with and wink at the commentary team while making faces in the ring like he was yawning. The entertainment value was phenomenal. Edit: I say this due to the "in the ring" clause in the title. For me, seeing Larry Holmes drop kick Berbick while jumping off a car was priceless. This content is protected
I agree. A major part of Ali’s entertainment value was his “cocky” movements and the things he would do and say in the ring. However, post-ban, Ali did a lot more holding, even in great fights like the Thrilla in Manila. I also find it interesting you mentioned the Rumble in the Jungle, because while Ali used the ropes to evade shots, a lot of the time he was just absorbing punches from Foreman. Ali probably has one of the most underrated chins, but beyond the spectacle, which is huge, it’s actually a dull fight to rewatch. Holmes had a lot of classic fights, like those against Norton, Williams, Witherspoon, Shavers, Holyfield, Snipes, Mercer, Cooney, and Spinks, along with fun one-sided beatdowns (equal to the Ali vs. Terrell fight) like Cobb, Jones, Bonecrusher Smith, and Berbick. I just prefer Holmes. In my opinion, he had better ring generalship, balance, and lateral movement. He also had the greatest jab. His jab was never just one type. He could throw it from the guard, chest, or hip, use it as a feint for uppercuts, or fire it over an opponent’s right hand. All the good qualities people praise in Ali are also present in Holmes, like grit, boxing IQ, and athleticism. That’s why Holmes’ fights are superior in my view.
Haha, great video. Holmes was one of the few who seemed to see through the “nice guy” facade of Berbick before everything became public. Rip (rest in p*ss) Berbick. This content is protected
I think Holmes probably had more classics, even if not as well known as some of Ali's fights. But of course, if we count in spectacle, Holmes can't hold a candle to Ali.
I prefer Holmes's technical skills when he's outboxing an opponent. It looks more clinical/textbook and I appreciate that a bit more TBH. Ali has the most memorable singular fights like the FOTC, Rumble in the Jungle, etc. But I don't think Ali has any technically brilliant fights quite like Holmes's fights vs Norton, Witherspoon. Holmes's war vs Weaver is up there with the Frazier fights aswell IMO but its not talked about as much.
I forgot to add the Weaver fight, but I agree, Holmes has so many technically brilliant fights where he schools his opponents for 12 or 15 rounds.
Is Ali's chin underrated? He's widely considered to have one of the best chins in the game. Also, good topic. Ali was definitely more of a showman than Holmes, but as for which had the more entertaining performances? I prefer pre-exile Ali's, because I'm always mesmerised by his foot speed. But compared to post-exile Ali, Holmes' insanely versatile jab made his fights more enjoyable IMO. Best jab in boxing history prolly.
I don't think there will ever be a better fight than Manila, in terms of a guts fight between elite heavyweights, and will always be one of the most brutal, grueling matches on film. But overall, with Norton, Weaver, Cooney, Shavers, Witherspoon, I'm not blaming anyone for saying Holmes was more entertaining. I actually prefer his action more, personally. I remember far less entertaining fights with Ali with minor names. I think his charisma makes people misremember everything into highlight reels where that godawful Wepner fight becomes Rocky, and the like. He had a lot of stretches of butt-ugly groping and slapping that Holmes didn't really have, the way I remember, but I've always been biased for Holmes, to be fair.
When I was talking about Ali’s chin being underrated, I was more so talking about the casual viewpoint that Ali used his amazing head movement and tactics like the rope-a-dope to avoid shots. In reality, though Ali has amazing head movement and uses great tactics, he would sometimes just defend punches with his chin way more than people care to admit. Pre-exile Ali was a beast and is more entertaining than prime Holmes, but that version of Ali didn't have enough fights for me to consider him more entertaining than Holmes.