Who is more overrated - Harry Greb or Laszlo Papp?

I don't care how you talk, but why the aggression to everyone?
You criticized our English, I just took the **** in return
It invited a response.
I don't have any grudges with anyone here.

I don't think either Greb or Papp are overated really.

 

Jeez. If anything Papp's kinda underrated. Wining three Olympic Gold medals and working yourself into contention in a pretty deep middleweight division in the early 60's is nothing to sneeze at.

 

I dont get where some of this **** comes from...

When Greb lost to Mike Gibbons, Mike was in his prime and the best fighter in the world. Greb was not yet in his prime. He came back and beat Gibbons.

When Greb lost the first fight to Tommy he was still very Green and Tommy was tutored by the best boxer of the age. Yes Tommy was green but he had a hell of a lot going for him, in addition to the fact that he was fighting at home. I have no excuse for the second fight with Greb but Greb stated he took Gibbons lightly, asked for an immediate rematch, and then whipped Gibbons. He didnt take Gibbons lightly again and then when Greb was blind in one eye and Gibbons was being talked about in much the same way as a young Mike Tyson Greb dominated him over 15 rounds.

Its debateable that Greb was ever heavier than Bartfield by 20 lbs. The only time that disparity was recorded was in Columbus. At that weigh in both fighters weighed in fully clothed (and it was winter) so the weights cannot be regarded as anything close to accurate. The greatest accurate disparity in weight between them was their first fight in Buffalo which was about 15 pounds. Regardless they fought five times and Bartfield only managed to win one fight. Furthermore Bartfield was a hell of a fighter and gave everyone he fought ten kinds of hell despite his relative size. How is it a knock that Greb loses to such a guy while still developing??

Both the Loughran loss and draw were highly disputed.

Whoa, now slow down. O'Dowd CLEARLY outboxed Greb? CLEARLY? First of all O'Dowd was the champion at the time, so its not like he was a slouch. He earned that championship by knocking out a guy who made it his stock in trade not to be stopped. Furthermore, the fight was fought in O'Dowds hometown and his own hometown papers were split as to who won that fight AFTER Greb had melted down to the lowest weight of his MW career. How is that "CLEARLY" outboxing someone? Furthermore, the fact that O'Dowd steadfastly refused to fight Greb outside of the Twin Cities for anything short of a kings ransom that promoters were unwilling to pay (i.e. he priced himself out of the match) pretty much tells me even O'Dowd knew he didnt CLEARLY outbox Greb.

Even Tunney never proved his superiority over Greb as you claim. He was dominated in their first fight, won a criminal gift decision in their second fight, legitimately won a close decision in their third, and either lost or drew their fourth. It was only the fifth fight, when Greb was getting long in the tooth and not training like he had in the past that Tunney showed anything like dominance (and those reports are overblown). You say its no coincidence that Greb suffered a few defeats to the best he faced. I say its no coincidence that not one of those fighters you list could better him in a series. Not one. And thats despite many times being younger and holding weight advantages, and having the use of two good eyes. If Greb wasnt dominant, as you state, what do you call a guy who for years had the champions of three different weight divisions running in the opposite direction while beating their best challengers, or them for that matter.

Go ahead. Make a list of the champions and best challengers of say, 1916 to 1926 from MW to HW. Then compare that list with the fighters who Greb either beat, or who simply refused point blank to fight him (and that is a matter of record). Then tell me thats anything but dominant. Take the best fighter today, match him with his most difficult opponent 5 or 6 times and tell me he wont lose one or two of a series. Especially fighting every week in every division.:-(

 

Sources please...


Outside of New York, where Greb got consistently bad press, the mention of him being an overly dirty fighter in the volumes and volumes of press accounts by actual observers come few and far between. the cadre of New York writers who went after Greb with a vengeance (and for the record influenced much of boxing writing and historical perspective for the next 50 years via magazine articles etc) had a lot more to due with Greb's rep than anything he actually did in the ring.

 

Darcy is lucky we murdered him before Greb could...

 

papp isn't rated. he isn't even talked about. and when he is, hardly anyone seems to know who he is...

those claiming papp is more overrated than greb must be doing so with the proviso that no amount of credit can be considered too much for greb, given what he achieved.

 

I got it from a CBZ article. All of which are cited as secondary sources. But you probably have the right of it if that's the case, almost all those quotes are from the new york post.

 

I'll put it this way: Did Greb occasionally resort to foul tactics? Yes, absolutely. Particularly later in his career. Did he resort to these tactics more than your average fighter? No. With no exaggeration, I have as many articles/accounts (and Im talking first hand accounts, not Ring magazine b.s. from 1940) that literally go out of their way to talk about Greb's clean style of fighting and sportsmanship. Thats no exaggeration. In fact, I have several that not only talk about how is "the cleanest fighter" to ever appear in such and such a town. But several where for instance a fighter lost his balance, etc when Greb could have taken legal but unfair advantage and either stepped back, or literally help the guy regain his composure to cheers of the crowd. Its never stuff like that you hear about Greb its always the more sensational and salacious stories. Never mind that even when he was alive his most ardent critics would have admitted that the chief foul he was guilty of was not butting, or thumbing, or lacing but holding and hitting which was a lot more tolerated when Greb start fighting than when he quit (much like the backhand punch that Soldier Bartfield used to great effect) and which was probably necessitated by Greb's lack of vision in one eye and resulting loss of depth perception.

 

K, your tilting with windmills. There are some posters that will say anything that will disparage the amazing accomplishments of Harry Greb. He of course was not GOD, but what he did in his career against great fighters,many of whom were much bigger than him, whipping everyone of them, avoiding
no one, fighting almost weekly in a 300 bout career,the latter part blind in one eye, is almost surreal. Aside from a Fitz, Langford, Mickey Walker, and
Henry Armstrong,who also took on much bigger men, Harry Greb was unique,
and in my eyes was astounding, despite some detractors on ESB...

 

the only reason people claim he's overrated is he's a patsy, poorly muscled white guy.

reverse racism, that's all.

 

Considering the subject, thought I'd re-post an incident ya might enjoy:

Boxing teams in a gym have distinct personalities, some gregarious 'n outgoing, some focused on the work, but Eastern Euros are like a police state, suspicious 'n tight-lipped.

So, one day at Wild Card a new Eastern Euro heavy came to train 'n I watched him spar. His coach gave me a big wave 'n smile, which was so outta character, I kept lookin' around, sure it was meant for someone else.

He pointed at me to the other members of his team, 'n they were all smiles and waving. Think Charles Bronsons turned to Roberto Benignis.

After the sparring session, the coach came over 'n gave me a bear hug, "Laszlo!"

He'd mistaken me for Laszlo Papp, the great Hungarian Olympian. Soon as he learned I wasn't, the Iron Curtain slammed ****.

 

And your not even a southpaw

 

I dont know JG, could have been worse. They could of thought you were zsa zsa gabor