Who is rated higher ? Foreman or Frazier ?

Agreed, although some of those guys were extremely bad though. Ron Stander, Manuel Ramos, Dave Zyglewicz, and Terry Daniels were among some of the very weakest challengers in heavyweight boxing history, and a couple of them even finished their careers with nearly as many or more losses than they had wins....

 

i rate foreman a few places above joe

 

But he certainly didn't duck Quarry, Bonavena or Ellis (and Jimmy was far better against Ringo than Joe had been).

The argument could be made that he essentially ruined Ramos, Ziggy and Daniels, and beat up the very finest versions of all three. Stander acquitted himself with honor, but discovered that simply forcing Joe to give ground was not enough in and of itself to defeat him. (In that one respect though, Big Ron had considerably more success than Layne had with Marciano. I've often wondered how Rocky would have responded if Rex indeed had been strong enough to force him back. Marciano was a miniature Gibraltar in that one, truly an immovable object.)

 

Frazier's wins over Ali, Quarry, Ellis, Bonavena and to a lesser degree, Mathis are what make his resume.. Stander, Zyglewicz, Ramos and Daniels were nothing more than filler fights.. We can speculate all we want about them being potentially good fighters who Frazier simply "ruined", but at the end of the day these men do no more for Frazier's resume than Jack Roper did for Louis's.

 

Apples and Oranges

 

It's really more heavyweights and heavyweights, isn't it?

 

Id say the oranges must be ranked higher.
Its the vitamin 'c' on the resume that clinches it.

 

Joe, my namesake is my favourite heavyweight ever but I see no justifiable way of putting him above Foreman. I have Foreman #4, Frazier #8 currently.

 

You're underrating apples, you can make Cider from apples (alcoholic cider for Americans) and they have the vitamin C attribute in their own right

 

Foreman (3 or 4)

Frazier (9)

 

I think Foreman should be ranked higher than Frazier.

 

Screw you! Oranges KO1 Apples!

Apples: Mg per 100 grams - 6
Oranges: 53


Source: Homeless guy who lives in front of my local Walmart who used to be a nutritionist in Zaire, according to him.

 

I like Frazier......beat Jerry Quarry...Oscar Bonavena....Jimmy Ellis...Buster Mathis...
Bob Foster....Ali in the FOTC.......after that fight in 1971...Joe was never the same...he
left everything he had in the ring that night in MSG

 

I try not to dwell on lists too much because they really don't mean much to me. There will always be certain guys that get a mention as one of the best ever... that should be good enough for them and their fans.

As for comparing Foreman and Frazier??? There is no comparison. Foreman was much better. Frazier matched up well with Ali, Foreman did not... but I do think Foreman would have done better in a rematch vs. Ali.

Frazier won more HW World title fights but I have no doubts Foreman would have crushed any fighter that Frazier beat (with the exception of Ali).

Frazier was great, but Foreman was better.

OK, for the first time on this forum I will speak on my top 10 HWs of all-time list.

01. Ali
02. Holmes
03. Holyfield
04. Foreman
05. Louis
06. Marciano
07. Frazier
08. Lewis
09. Tyson
10. Liston

Ask me again tomorrow and I met give you a different answer. I will say this though... the top 5 rarely changes and I always have Ali at #1 and Holmes at #2.

 

This is a head scratcher.

If Frazier retired after Ali I--like Yank Durahm urged him to do--he'd probably be ranked as the greatest HW of all time, wouldn't he? So were downgrading him for his post prime prefroamces, which doesn't seem completely fair.

On the otehr hand, Foreman destrioyed Fraier H2h. I think Foreman is the ultimate nightmare matchup for Frazier and would probably KO him even in his prime.

I agree with Lobotomy that Frazier would do better than Foreman against a tournament of all time HWs. Foreman would have problems against good boxer/movers with strong chins. Joe Jeannette for example might beat Foreman.

So on balance I rate Frazier higher, but it's a tough call.