Who is SHOT and who is PEAK?????

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Oct 17, 2008.


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  1. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    I'm interested in peoples' perceptions of the stages and conditions fighters are in at certain times, as this seems to provoke frequent debate.

    OK people, purge your mind of any bias or agenda relating to these fighters in accordance with your own likes/dislikes, and state on the basis of the evidence of these fighters' performances in the fights in question, the fights immediately before and immediately after this of their careers, and say whether you think they were:


    SHOT - example Ali v Holmes & Berbick 1980-81

    PAST PRIME - example Ali v Shavers & Norton 1976-77

    STILL AT A GOOD LEVEL - example Ali v Frazier & Foreman 1974

    PEAK - example Ali v Williams & Terrell 1967-68

    GREEN - example Ali v Cooper 1963


    And before the smart dudes start, yes there probably are more stages and yes this may be reductive blah blah blah, but we all know this, if you don't want to give your estimate of where the fighters fall into in this 5 categories, then don't bother.

    OK, here is the list...

    Roy Jones Jr v John Ruiz, 2003
    Roy Jones Jr v Antonio Tarver II, 2004
    Roy Jones Jr v Felix Trinidad, 2008
    Joe Calzaghe v Robin Reid, 1999
    Joe Calzaghe v Byron Mitchell, 2003
    Joe Calzaghe v Kabary Salem, 2004
    Joe Calzaghe v Jeff Lacy, 2006
    Bernard Hopkins v Roy Jones Jr, 1993
    Bernard Hopkins v Glen Johnson, 1997
    Bernard Hopkins v Felix Trinidad, 2001
    Erik Morales v Manny Pacquiao I, 2005
    Marco Antonio Barrera v Manny Pacquiao I, 2003
    Marco Antonio Barrera v Juan Manuel Marquez, 2007
    Evander Holyfield v Lennox Lewis I+II, 1999
    Lennox Lewis v Vitali Klitschko, 2003
    Pernell Whitaker v Julio Cesar Chavez, 1993
    Julio Cesar Chavez v Pernell Whitaker, 1993
    Pernell Whitaker v Felix Trinidad, 1999
    Julio Cesar Chavez v Oscar De La Hoya I, 1996
    Naseem Hamed v Vuyani Bungu, 2000
    Naseem Hamed v Marco Antonio Barrera, 2001
    Kostya Tszyu v Sharmba Mitchell, 2004
    Manny Pacquiao v Marco Antonio Barrera, 2003
    Juan Manuel Marquez v Joel Casamayor, 2008
    Joel Casamayor v Juan Manuel Marquez, 2008
    Michael Katsidis v Joel Casamayor, 2008
    Juan Manuel Marquez v Manny Pacquiao I, 2004
    James Toney v Vassily Jirov, 2003
    Glen Johnson v Roy Jones Jr, 2004
    Glen Johnson v Chad Dawson, 2008
    Miguel Cotto v Ricardo Torres, 2005
    Miguel Cotto v Antonio Margarito, 2008
    Felix Trinidad v Bernard Hopkins, 2001
    Shane Mosley v Philip Holiday, 1997
    Floyd Mayweather Jr v Arturo Gatti, 2005
    Oscar De La Hoya v Fernando Vargas, 2002
    Oscar De La Hoya v Steve Forbes, 2008
    Oscar De La Hoya v Pernell Whitaker, 1997


    What do you think?
     
    DINAMITA, Oct 17, 2008
    DINAMITA, Oct 17, 2008
    #1
  2. EpsilonAxis

    EpsilonAxis HNIC Full Member

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    No one is answering all of those, man.
     
    EpsilonAxis, Oct 17, 2008
    EpsilonAxis, Oct 17, 2008
    #2
  3. BadJuju83

    BadJuju83 Bolivian Full Member

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    Sep 19, 2008
    I think you put a **** load of effort into a question!

    Cant be arsed doing all bud but heres some-

    Cotto-Margarito-Peak
    Bhop-Roy Jones-Green
    PBF-Gatti-Peak
    Lewis-Klitschko-Past Prime
    Tito-Bhop-Still at a good level
    Hamed-Barrera-Still at Good Level
    Tszyu-Mitchell-Still at good level
     
    BadJuju83, Oct 17, 2008
    BadJuju83, Oct 17, 2008
    #3
  4. joecaldragon

    joecaldragon Guest

    Roy Jones Jr v John Ruiz, 2003 - PEAK Jones
    Roy Jones Jr v Antonio Tarver II, 2004 - SHOT Jones
    Roy Jones Jr v Felix Trinidad, 2008 - SHOT Jones
    Joe Calzaghe v Robin Reid, 1999 - GREEN Calzaghe
    Joe Calzaghe v Byron Mitchell, 2003 - PEAK Calzaghe
    Joe Calzaghe v Kabary Salem, 2004 - PEAK Calzaghe
    Joe Calzaghe v Jeff Lacy, 2006 - PEAK Calzaghe
    Bernard Hopkins v Roy Jones Jr, 1993 - GREEN Hopkins
    Bernard Hopkins v Glen Johnson, 1997 - PEAK Hopkins
    Bernard Hopkins v Felix Trinidad, 2001 - PEAK Hopkins
    Erik Morales v Manny Pacquiao I, 2005 - PEAK Morales
    Marco Antonio Barrera v Manny Pacquiao I, 2003 - PEAK Barrera
    Marco Antonio Barrera v Juan Manuel Marquez, 2007 - PASTPRIME Barrera
    Evander Holyfield v Lennox Lewis I+II, 1999 - PASTPRIME Holyfield
    Lennox Lewis v Vitali Klitschko, 2003 - GOOD LEVEL Lewis
    Pernell Whitaker v Julio Cesar Chavez, 1993 - GOOD LEVEL Whitaker
    Julio Cesar Chavez v Pernell Whitaker, 1993 - GOOD LEVEL Chavez
    Pernell Whitaker v Felix Trinidad, 1999 - SHOT Whitaker
    Julio Cesar Chavez v Oscar De La Hoya I, 1996 - PASTPRIME Chavez
    Naseem Hamed v Vuyani Bungu, 2000 - PEAK Hamed
    Naseem Hamed v Marco Antonio Barrera, 2001 - PEAK Hamed
    Kostya Tszyu v Sharmba Mitchell, 2004 - GOODLEVEL Tszyu
    Manny Pacquiao v Marco Antonio Barrera, 2003 - GREEN Pacquiao
    Juan Manuel Marquez v Joel Casamayor, 2008 - PEAK Marquez
    Joel Casamayor v Juan Manuel Marquez, 2008 - GOOD LEVEL Casamayor
    Michael Katsidis v Joel Casamayor, 2008 - PEAK Katsidis
    Juan Manuel Marquez v Manny Pacquiao I, 2004 - PEAK Marquez
    James Toney v Vassily Jirov, 2003 - GOOD LEVEL Toney
    Glen Johnson v Roy Jones Jr, 2004 - PEAK Johnson
    Glen Johnson v Chad Dawson, 2008 - GOOD LEVEL Johnson
    Miguel Cotto v Ricardo Torres, 2005 - PEAK Cotto
    Miguel Cotto v Antonio Margarito, 2008 - PEAK Cotto
    Felix Trinidad v Bernard Hopkins, 2001 - PEAK Trinidad
    Shane Mosley v Philip Holiday, 1997 - GREEN Mosley
    Floyd Mayweather Jr v Arturo Gatti, 2005 - GOOD LEVEL Mayweather
    Oscar De La Hoya v Fernando Vargas, 2002 - GOOD LEVEL Oscar
    Oscar De La Hoya v Steve Forbes, 2008 - PASTPRIME Oscar
    Oscar De La Hoya v Pernell Whitaker, 1997 - PEAK Oscar

    :good
     
    joecaldragon, Oct 17, 2008
    joecaldragon, Oct 17, 2008
    #4
  5. tays001

    tays001 ESB ELITE SQUAD Full Member

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    no
     
    tays001, Oct 17, 2008
    tays001, Oct 17, 2008
    #5
  6. Axe

    Axe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well, that happened quick. :rofl

    People are so loath to give Tarver any credit, due to the fact that he KTFO their hero.

    Jones may not have been at prime, but he was far, far from shot on that day...at least when it started.
     
    Axe, Oct 17, 2008
    Axe, Oct 17, 2008
    #6
  7. PRproud

    PRproud Active Member Full Member

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    Roy Jones Jr v Felix Trinidad, 2008 - SHOT Jones


    Shot Trinidad as well, and way above his weight.


    Felix Trinidad v Bernard Hopkins, 2001 - PEAK Trinidad
    That one totally agreed.
     
    PRproud, Oct 17, 2008
    PRproud, Oct 17, 2008
    #7
  8. Salty Dog

    Salty Dog globalize the Buc-ees revolution Full Member

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    So, according to this list Pacman has yet to reach his peak? If I've misunderstood, in which fight/fights has Pac been at his peak?
     
    Salty Dog, Oct 17, 2008
    Salty Dog, Oct 17, 2008
    #8
  9. Brickhaus

    Brickhaus Packs the house Full Member

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    Mar 14, 2007
    Roy Jones Jr v John Ruiz, 2003 - GOOD LEVEL
    Roy Jones Jr v Antonio Tarver II, 2004 - PAST PRIME
    Roy Jones Jr v Felix Trinidad, 2008 - SHOT
    Joe Calzaghe v Robin Reid, 1999 - GREEN
    Joe Calzaghe v Byron Mitchell, 2003 - PEAK
    Joe Calzaghe v Kabary Salem, 2004 - PEAK
    Joe Calzaghe v Jeff Lacy, 2006 - PEAK
    Bernard Hopkins v Roy Jones Jr, 1993 - GREEN
    Bernard Hopkins v Glen Johnson, 1997 - PEAK
    Bernard Hopkins v Felix Trinidad, 2001 - PEAK
    Erik Morales v Manny Pacquiao I, 2005 - GOOD LEVEL
    Marco Antonio Barrera v Manny Pacquiao I, 2003 - PEAK
    Marco Antonio Barrera v Juan Manuel Marquez, 2007 - SHOT
    Evander Holyfield v Lennox Lewis I+II, 1999 - PAST PRIME
    Lennox Lewis v Vitali Klitschko, 2003 - GOOD LEVEL
    Pernell Whitaker v Felix Trinidad, 1999 - SHOT
    Julio Cesar Chavez v Oscar De La Hoya I, 1996 - PAST PRIME
    Naseem Hamed v Vuyani Bungu, 2000 - GOOD LEVEL
    Naseem Hamed v Marco Antonio Barrera, 2001 - PAST PRIME (I'm of the mind that he just peaked extremely early)
    Kostya Tszyu v Sharmba Mitchell, 2004 - PAST PRIME
    Manny Pacquiao v Marco Antonio Barrera, 2003 - PEAK
    Juan Manuel Marquez v Joel Casamayor, 2008 - GOOD LEVEL
    Joel Casamayor v Juan Manuel Marquez, 2008 - SHOT
    Michael Katsidis v Joel Casamayor, 2008 - PEAK, I just don't think he's that good or ever will be
    Juan Manuel Marquez v Manny Pacquiao I, 2004 - PEAK
    James Toney v Vassily Jirov, 2003 - PAST PRIME
    Glen Johnson v Roy Jones Jr, 2004 - PEAK
    Glen Johnson v Chad Dawson, 2008 - GOOD LEVEL.
    Miguel Cotto v Ricardo Torres, 2005 - GREEN
    Miguel Cotto v Antonio Margarito, 2008 - PEAK
    Felix Trinidad v Bernard Hopkins, 2001 - PAST PRIME
    Floyd Mayweather Jr v Arturo Gatti, 2005 - PEAK
    Oscar De La Hoya v Fernando Vargas, 2002 - GOOD LEVEL
    Oscar De La Hoya v Steve Forbes, 2008 - PAST PRIME
    Oscar De La Hoya v Pernell Whitaker, 1997 - PEAK

    Cut out a few of the earlier ones I don't know as well.
     
    Brickhaus, Oct 17, 2008
    Brickhaus, Oct 17, 2008
    #9
  10. CarlesX7

    CarlesX7 Shit got real! Full Member

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    Roy Jones Jr v John Ruiz, 2003 - PEAK Jones
    Roy Jones Jr v Antonio Tarver II, 2004 - GOOD LEVEL Jones
    Roy Jones Jr v Felix Trinidad, 2008 - SHOT both
    Bernard Hopkins v Roy Jones Jr, 1993 - GREEN both
    Bernard Hopkins v Glen Johnson, 1997 - (almost) PEAK Hopkins, GREEN Johnson
    Bernard Hopkins v Felix Trinidad, 2001 - PEAK both
    Evander Holyfield v Lennox Lewis I+II, 1999 - PEAK Lennox/GOOD LEVEL Holyfield
    Lennox Lewis v Vitali Klitschko, 2003 - PAST PRIME Lewis
    Julio Cesar Chavez v Oscar De La Hoya I, 1996 - GOOD LEVEL Chavez
    Juan Manuel Marquez v Joel Casamayor, 2008 - PAST PRIME Casa
    Michael Katsidis v Joel Casamayor, 2008 - same as above
    Glen Johnson v Roy Jones Jr, 2004 - DECENT LEVEL Jones :D
    Glen Johnson v Chad Dawson, 2008 - PEAK Dawson
    Miguel Cotto v Ricardo Torres, 2005 - (a little) GREEN Cotto
    Miguel Cotto v Antonio Margarito, 2008 - PEAK both
    Floyd Mayweather Jr v Arturo Gatti, 2005 - PEAK Floyd/DECENT LEVEL Gatti :D
    Oscar De La Hoya v Steve Forbes, 2008 - GOOD LEVEL DLH

    I guess by saying "decent" level, I mean the stage where a fighter starts to become past prime from good level.
     
    CarlesX7, Oct 17, 2008
    CarlesX7, Oct 17, 2008
    #10
  11. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,647
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    Jan 10, 2007
    Roy Jones Jr v John Ruiz, 2003 - PEAK Jones
    Roy Jones Jr v Antonio Tarver II, 2004 - PAST PRIME Jones
    Roy Jones Jr v Felix Trinidad, 2008 - SHOT Jones
    Joe Calzaghe v Robin Reid, 1999 - GREEN Calzaghe
    Joe Calzaghe v Byron Mitchell, 2003 - PEAK Calzaghe
    Joe Calzaghe v Kabary Salem, 2004 - PEAK Calzaghe
    Joe Calzaghe v Jeff Lacy, 2006 - PEAK Calzaghe
    Bernard Hopkins v Roy Jones Jr, 1993 - GREEN Hopkins
    Bernard Hopkins v Glen Johnson, 1997 - PEAK Hopkins
    Bernard Hopkins v Felix Trinidad, 2001 - PEAK Hopkins
    Erik Morales v Manny Pacquiao I, 2005 - PEAK Morales
    Marco Antonio Barrera v Manny Pacquiao I, 2003 - PEAK Barrera
    Marco Antonio Barrera v Juan Manuel Marquez, 2007 - PAST PRIME Barrera
    Evander Holyfield v Lennox Lewis I+II, 1999 - PAST PRIME Holyfield
    Lennox Lewis v Vitali Klitschko, 2003 - GOOD LEVEL Lewis
    Pernell Whitaker v Julio Cesar Chavez, 1993 - PEAK Whitaker
    Julio Cesar Chavez v Pernell Whitaker, 1993 - PEAK Chavez
    Pernell Whitaker v Felix Trinidad, 1999 - SHOT Whitaker
    Julio Cesar Chavez v Oscar De La Hoya I, 1996 - PAST PRIME Chavez
    Naseem Hamed v Vuyani Bungu, 2000 - PEAK Hamed
    Naseem Hamed v Marco Antonio Barrera, 2001 - PEAK Hamed
    Kostya Tszyu v Sharmba Mitchell, 2004 - GOOD LEVEL Tszyu
    Manny Pacquiao v Marco Antonio Barrera, 2003 - GREEN Pacquiao
    Juan Manuel Marquez v Joel Casamayor, 2008 - PEAK Marquez
    Joel Casamayor v Juan Manuel Marquez, 2008 - PAST PRIME Casamayor
    Michael Katsidis v Joel Casamayor, 2008 - PEAK Katsidis
    Juan Manuel Marquez v Manny Pacquiao I, 2004 - PEAK Marquez
    James Toney v Vassily Jirov, 2003 - GOOD LEVEL Toney
    Glen Johnson v Roy Jones Jr, 2004 - PEAK Johnson
    Glen Johnson v Chad Dawson, 2008 - GOOD LEVEL Johnson
    Miguel Cotto v Ricardo Torres, 2005 - GREEN Cotto
    Miguel Cotto v Antonio Margarito, 2008 - PEAK Cotto
    Felix Trinidad v Bernard Hopkins, 2001 - PEAK Trinidad
    Shane Mosley v Philip Holiday, 1997 - GREEN Mosley
    Floyd Mayweather Jr v Arturo Gatti, 2005 - PEAK Mayweather
    Oscar De La Hoya v Fernando Vargas, 2002 - PEAK Oscar
    Oscar De La Hoya v Steve Forbes, 2008 - PAST PRIME Oscar
    Oscar De La Hoya v Pernell Whitaker, 1997 - PEAK Oscar
     
    Big Ukrainian, Oct 18, 2008
    Big Ukrainian, Oct 18, 2008
    #11
  12. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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    Shot/Old is when a fighter loses that people wanted to win, so discredit the winner we call them old/shot.
     
    eze, Oct 18, 2008
    eze, Oct 18, 2008
    #12
  13. socrates

    socrates THE ORIGINAL... Full Member

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    wins..hes peak

    loses..hes shot

    says it all really about the groupies.
     
    socrates, Oct 18, 2008
    socrates, Oct 18, 2008
    #13
  14. pauliemayweathe

    pauliemayweathe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    A- who would really know
    B-that is way too many fights
    C-who cares
     
    pauliemayweathe, Oct 18, 2008
    pauliemayweathe, Oct 18, 2008
    #14
  15. socrates

    socrates THE ORIGINAL... Full Member

    7,559
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    haha god your funny.
     
    socrates, Oct 18, 2008
    socrates, Oct 18, 2008
    #15
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