Who Is The Best Aussie Fighter Of All Time?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jul 8, 2016.

  1. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    In fairness I don't think he ever boxed before he got to Oz, and it is fair to say he learned his trade there.
     
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  2. gregluland

    gregluland Boxing Addict Full Member

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    FFS I grew up in Australia and this subject was always always discussed, IT WAS THE GENERAL feeling/opinion from as long as I can remember. We went decades with many of our best fighters never getting a world title shot. You know McVey I feel all you care about is arguing for arguments sake.
     
  3. gregluland

    gregluland Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not really that small a pond, sure the population then was small but there were many hundreds of pros, the sport was in very good shape then. Travel back then was far from easy like it is now, long long boat trips were the only way so fighters who did come downunder stayed for many months and many fights same would be the case in reverse, no one is going all the way to the US for one fight even if it's a title. When I talk about how Aussies thought about all this it's true........ they may have been wrong but Aussies really felt that way, even felt that in the 70's. Australia today is what you call a small pond... compared to the 20's 30s and 40s the game here is minute indeed.
     
  4. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I was amazed at how much professional boxing activity there was in Australia from 1880 to 1950, especially during the period from 1920 to 1940. You can get an idea about how much activity there was "Down Under" by looking on BoxRec.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    I grew up in the UK to be confidently told by older guys that Tommy Farr was robbed against Joe Louis,that Don ****ell only lost to Marciano because he was fouled.
    Both opinions are jingoistic ,partisan ,bullsh*t.

    The general feeling/opinion is an emotion, it is not a fact.
    All I care about are facts and you haven't produced any, just as you didn't respond when I proved that crock of sh*t that the self styled " Boxing Librarian"posted on You Tube is wildly inaccurate agenda driven rubbish.
    I challenged him to refute my verifiable facts he didn't, and you haven't .
    If I make a statement here I am prepared to be asked to back it up with primary sourced proof and I will do so .As far as I'm concerned that's the name of the game.
    How's the playing going?
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    A small pond as regards world titles, they made the choice ,no one forced them to stay Down Under.

    I'm sure many of the Aussie boxers were excellent fighters ,but looking at their resumes I can't confidently say any of them would have won world titles if they had travelled and made challenges for them.
     
  7. gregluland

    gregluland Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How about you carefully read what I was saying... I never said anything was a fact but if most Aussies in the old boxing community thought they would get a bad wrap in america then it explains why many never made the trip.

    Leave my freind the Librarian out of this, his opinions are not always mine but he is a good guy and I don't think he goes on to make a video without a whole pile of facts to back up what he is saying, his knowledge is extensive. In your real life how many of your friends agree with everything you say ? is that a pre-requisite for friendship ? of course not yet you come here and want to get hot headed when all we are doing is talking about a sport we love.

    My playing is going fine although I don't have the same energy as I used to have so don't play as much but I know my stuff but playing all the time gives a fluency that money can't buy. Hoping to regain some health but the cancer will never go away... I have to try and live with it. It sucks greatly.
     
  8. gregluland

    gregluland Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I will add this, The Boxing Librarian has not bothered to respond to you because of the names you called him.... he just can't be bothered as you are just one man..... he would however come out fighting if a lot of people called him a liar or something like that.

    Yes many Aussies were great fighters and yes I am not sure that many would have won world titles but I think Ron Richards could have.... Jack Carroll would have had a big chance even though the competition was high, Barney Ross was a truly great fighter but Jack was probably too fast and slick for Barney to have worked out, Barney would have had to go all out from the mid rounds and try to overwhelm Jack. Who else ? Vic Patrick had a chance for sure but would not have held on to the title long, he was a massive puncher so had a punchers chance. Jack Hassen could have gone on to a world title to be the first aboriginal to win a title but after he killed Archie Kemp he just could not put any power behind his punches and he had great power. Elley Bennett also may have been a chance, he hit like a cement truck but Jimmy Carruthers was two levels above him and stopped Bennett's career completely, Carruthers was a very special fighter.... retired as world champion undefeated, he was incredibly fast.

    Peter Jackson ? now what if someone forced John L. to put his title on the line against him ? I personally do not think Sullivan had a hope in hell against Jackson who was in his prime and Sullivan past it.

    Jim Hall could have been a world champ too but the mighty Fitz stopped Jim right when Jim was destroying all the best american fighters on their home turf. There are many what if's in boxing and we love those, that's why we come to the forum....
     
  9. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    from the film i think ross would box his ears off, carroll was about as slick as sandpaper vs leto.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    I did read your post carefully ,my point is a general impression is not a fact.The only problem arises when it is presented as such. Your"Friend " Andrew Senior , told a pack of horse sh*t, he didn't produce any facts at all just a distorted agenda driven opinion , he was so wrong on so many things it was pitiful.
    I produced facts to refute his innccuracies ,he then ignored them. If he has facts he should have shot me down in flames ,but he hasn't replied.. I doubt his knowledge too, he describes Tommy Loughran as," a natural counter puncher", when in fact he was a classic ,stand up left jabbing stylist. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me my friends often do and my partner voted to Remain whilst I voted for Brexit,all I require is a fact supported argument from them. I'm not hot headed here at all I'm sitting having a cup of tea, at peace with the world. Regarding your cancer ,my partner did an obstacle course,sponsored run for Cancer Research Sunday, the kids chipped in £50 between them and I matched it.
    I wish you all the best in fighting the dreadful complaint.:good
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Richards lost twice to Moore. Richards was rated in1938,no3 above him for the vacant title were Apostoli and Krieger.
    1939 no4 with Garcia,Hostak ,and Overlin above him.
    Rated again in1941 he had slipped to no 9 with Zale champ Abrams ,Charles,Belloise.Apostoli all rated above him.I like his style and would give him a chance to win the title in 38 &39 but wouldn't make him favourite. Which." best American fighters was Hall destroying on their home turf?".

    I cant find any ,unless you mean the 11 fight novice Choynski who kod him later?:huh
    I would have made Jackson a heavy favourite to top the old version of Sullivan,and it's a fact that ,once champion ,Corbett ducked him.

    Carroll looks to have been in with a shout though as you say the competition was very deep.I haven't seen any footage of him.

    Hassen ,[very tall for a lightweight,] was ko'd when in his prime [25,] by Joe Brown, a great lightweight imo ,so I don't think he would be gaining the crown.

    Vic Patrick I only know as the editor of an Aussie Boxing magazine of long ago.
     
  12. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    only a couple of minutes.
    This content is protected
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Will O The Wisp:lol: He looks as crude as can be .Ross would stab him silly Mclarnin would have ko'd him imo.
    I see Leto beat him three times in his own backyard.
    Thanks very much for the clip.:good
     
  14. Cakey

    Cakey New Member Full Member

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    I read this yesterday in a book titled Great Australian Sports Rorts

    Racketeers in control

    In the late 1920's, former Australian triple champion Billy Grimes travelled to the USA to further his career. For a while he struggled to get a bout, eventually sacking his manager, and then secured a fight in New York with a promising boxer named Bobby Nelson. After drawing the fight in what was described as a terrific contest, his new manager was able to secure a fight with Bobby Garcia, who at the time was quite a name on the American fight scene.

    During the fight, the Australian noticed a man sitting ringside twiddling a revolver around his finger while he sent messages to the referee by way of tick-tack signals. It become apparent to Grimes that Garcia wasn't his only opponent in the ring.
    Grimes recalled that every time the boxers were in a clinch, the referee would hold his elbows from behind allowing his opponent a free hit, at which point the ref let him go.

    In the second round the referee called break and grabbed the Australian, turning him around and allowing Garcia to floor Grimes with a fierce blow to the kidneys. The Australian fought back, keeping clear of Garcia and the referee for the rest of the fight yet still landing a series of blows, enough he thought, to get the decision. The referee thought otherwise and signalled Garcia the victor.

    A number of visitors to Grimes dressing room expressed outrage at the referee's decision. The Sporting Globe reported that a man called Grimes aside and said, 'You got a raw deal son, but you will get a return bout, and next time you'll have no worries about getting the decision'. In the return fight, Garcia had two associates planted in the visitors dressing room. They saw that the Australian was still sore from broken ribs, and relayed the information on to his opponent, who went for the ribs from the first punch. Again the decision went Garcia's way.

    A couple of months later Billy Grimes was matched against Sydney Lampe in his home town of Baltimore. The day before the fight, Lampe's connections offered Grime's $5000.00 to take a dive in the early part of the fight. Grime's thought that if they made that offer, Lampe should be pretty easy to beat, and so refused the approach. In the third round Grimes knocked the local to the floor, while he called the referee for a foul. The referee counted to nine before Lampe got back up.Again, Grimes hit Lampe with a big right, and down he went for the nine count, again calling for a foul. Lampe got up as the bell rang to signal the end of the round.

    At that stage the local Boxing Commission doctor went to examine Lampe, but he took his time giving the American some extra breathing space. It was a couple of minutes before the next round began, Lampe saw out the distance of the fight and, to widespread amazement, got the decision.

    It's not known whether it had anything to do with the fact that Grime's turned down the offer to take a dive, but a short time after the fight his American manager was murdered.

    I hope this can shed some light on dodgy shizen that happened in the past concerning at least one Australian fighter in the USA.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Thank you for your post unfortunately it contains some inaccuracies.
    Just prior to going to the US Grime had a fight on the 14th of March,and he had his first contest in the US on the 10th of May so, even if he left Oz the day after his last fight there he waited less than 2 months for his first one in the States .

    The article implied that Nelson was his first contest,inAmerica,it wasn't he had 4 fights before facing Nelson ,winning 2 and losing 2.

    At the time Nelson, fought Grime, he was not,"a promising boxer," he would have just 2 more fights after drawing with Grime ,then retire.
    Like wise Garcia was hardly," quite a name on the scene", he had won just 2 of his last 8 fights.

    Lampe by contrast was on a 9 fight winning streak, indeed if you look at his and Grime's respective records up till then, you would have made Lampe a heavy favourite to win their fight.

    I can find no information about 2 ,9 counts scored by Grime ,and looking at his ko record just 32 kos out of 163 fights ,for a 20 % stoppage record it would seem unlikely that he did score those kd's,not impossible ,just unlikely.

    At the end of the day Grime won just 2 of his 12 US fights and ,when he then went on to Panama for 3 fights, he won just 1 of them.
    I find tales of ringside gangsters, twirling revolvers round their fingers in full view of the audience to be fanciful hyperbole. Grime's record of
    163 fights 97 wins 52 losses
    indicates he was a busy journeyman nothing more, an honest tradesman if you will.

    Why would the people behind an up and coming fighter on a winning streak feel the need to offer him $5000 to lay down? He would be a heavy favourite to lose anyway so no betting margin ,and his losing hardly enhanced Lampe's record.:huh