Who is the best fighter throughout history you pick Marciano to beat?

Debating Marciano is as partisan as politics .. I don't know why some can't acknowledge his talent and accomplishments while keeping them in the perspective of reality .. He was an extremely focused, well conditioned 187 pound fighter that made up for lack of size and reach by overpowering and outlasting his opposition .. he did so against some famous names but all with asterisks .. Louis was a shell, Walcott was an old fighter, Charles was both past his best and at his best as a light heavyweight, Moore was a very cagey fighter, also at his best as a light heavyweight and old .. all of these four brought the best of what they had left against Rocky .. all were defeated .. this was all to Rocky's credit but to make more of these fighters than is true is nonsense.

Over 15 rounds , against men 200 and under who I will call Cruiserweights, I say Rocky is an all time great, a very dangerous fighter based on his chin, brain, conditioning, power, strength and over all skill set .. not doubt about it .. to claim that he could use the skills he demonstrated and apply them against much bigger, stronger and often faster men based on some sort of "it" factor, a mystical mix of determination/drive/stamina/heart that only Rocky possessed ( opposed to a Frazier who showed every bit as much heart and then some against far more dangerous fighters ) is where, to me, it gets into fantasy ..

Rocky's career was a perfect storm. He gave it his all, he had the right opposition and he got out at the right time .. he likely would have been brutalized by Louis ten years earlier and destroyed by Liston five years later ... but he wasn't .. he earned what he accomplished in the ring and again, to me , that is top ten standing as an all time great cruiserweight and given the hundreds of men he beats out that is a tremendous accomplishment .

 

I guess that's why the commentator on Walcott 1 is talking about an imminent stoppage of Marciano in Round 11.

 

I think your wrong Tyson could not crack Evanders chin and I wonder how reckless Iron Mike would be if the other guy did not fear him and hit back hard. It is a different story when the fighters are not already beaten with fear as were many of Tyson, Liston's and Foreman foes but a different story when their opponents showed no fear. Walcott and Moore had pin-point power not clubbing power but accurate and perfectly timed, Marciano got up quick enough on sturdy legs and went right to the man

 

I dont think anyone brutalizes Marciano and he did fight a range of cagey guys that were in fantastic condition. The Louis fight would have been much more competitive, the old Louis got brutalized by Rocky but a prime fight would be a war between 2 ATG's, Charles was on a high with 2 electric KO's and Moore was on his best streak of wins as a heavyweight, these were experienced men

Marciano detractors try much to undermine him but he passed all the tests and beat the best of his day and is in my top 3 ATG

 

So you only feel comfortable pitting Marciano against a post-prime, post-prison Tyson? How about the Tyson who tore a new a**hole through the entire division? Are you comfortable pitting Marciano against that Tyson?

 

Do you mean the unexposed Tyson that installed the fear of God in his opponents. Most of his opponents were intimidated, Yes Marciano would be a much sterner test indeed and fact. Early rounds would always be tough against Tyson but I do remember Tucker nailing him early and he kind of backed off. I think Tyson always suffered from the Bully syndrome and the cracks showed with Douglas Evander and later Williams and McBride and Marciano may have brought it out earlier

 

So, veteran guys like Thomas and Tucker and Tubbs, who had been around the game since the 1970's, who fought and sparred with a collective 1000's of guys, were just "bullied" by some new guy on the scene?

That's a helluva a story. Please tell me more.

 

Just about spot on, for me.

 

Based on Ali only ever stopping Henry Cooper on cuts? Henry Cooper who was a similar weight as Marciano, but chinny. Henry Cooper who said Patterson was a much harder puncher than Ali. Marciano would give Ali a good fight.

 

why are they cruiserweight? Joe Louis was 3lb lighter than George Foreman on his best night and still about as capable as Ray Mercer at that time.

With few exceptions a lot of heavyweights would scale within the old classic sized heavyweight or what you want to dismiss as mere cruiserweight with older traditional training and dietary programs.


Besides, cruiserweights today only beat other cruiserweights where as guys like Charles, Walcott and Moore beat rated guys at that time who were as big as modern heavyweights. If you dismiss them as cruisers why not at least dismiss them as "cruisers capable of beating rated modern sized heavyweights"?

This is accepted. A great fighter in his prime with these attributes is a test for bigger fighters too.

This is an opinion and a fair one but it works both ways. If it's ok to dismiss as fantasy something Rocky never got to do in reality then the fairest thing must be to also dismiss as fantasy things that never happened to Rocky in real life like getting blown out "with the greatest of ease" in one round etc etc etc.... A great fighter is hard to beat.

 

Marciano was hit quite often due to his fighting style same as other pressure fighters. He was never close to being knocked out, to say his chin was anything less then great is asinine, his chin was well tested. Marciano had a great chin, deal with it.

Yes Walcott troubled Marciano who was blinded that fight by a possible foreign substance. Saying that there are not to many fighters all time that have not at least been hurt and shook by punches.

 

49-0-43


Undisputable.


ATG top 5

 

Marciano was never hit by an elite large heavyweight let alone superheavy. The best he toiled against would be cruisers or lightheavies. So, I do agree that he has decent whiskers for a modern cruiserweight.

 

It was some story. All these huge 6'3"+ experienced heavyweights being bullied by a squat 5'11" 20 year old.

 

If by "bullying" you mean "hit hard and fast", yes it is.

Othereise, was he threatening to steal their lunch money?