Who is the best of the worse Heavyweight Champions?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Sister Sledge, Jan 26, 2010.


  1. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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  2. Sister Sledge

    Sister Sledge Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I take exception to you disrespecting my wife.
     
  3. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    In which case I apologise. I never mean to be personally rude, I take exception to that myself. It is of course only the Internet after all.
     
  4. Sister Sledge

    Sister Sledge Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No worries.
     
  5. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Primo was actually a good fighting champion within the brief time frame he held the title. He won it by battering around and out a defending titleholder who had previously kicked his ass. (Watch Carnera-Sharkey II from beginning to end, then tell me Sharkey took a dive. Primo was mauling and clubbing him all over the ring from the opening bell.) Uzcudun and Loughran were worthy challengers who each had defeated Carnera's eventual successor. Nobody ever counted ten over his body. Yet he was in the record book as the shortest reigning HW champion until Leon Spinks. He deserves full credit for taking the title out of mothballs, and defending it against live opposition.

    Willard gets trashed because he was filmed against Jack Johnson (who could make just about anybody look bad) and a peaking Dempsey. Check out Frank Moran's challenge of Lil' Artha' in Paris, and then his shot at Willard in the old smelly MSG. All Jess had to do to retain the title was finish on his feet. He did plenty more than that. He ducked, blocked and countered well off the ropes, and pitched a virtual shutout, repeatedly beating Moran to the punch with vastly superior speed. (Willard's speed advantage over Moran was markedly greater than Marciano's was over Layne.) He handled Carl Morris easily, according to newspaper reports, and the NY Times called his match with McCarty in his favor. The Floyd Johnson knockout is also a very credible post prime comeback win.

    In terms of potential though, Buster Douglas takes this comparison. Given heart and dedication, he easily could have become an ATG. He had size, speed, power, mobility, all the inborn physical gifts necessary to do well against any other champion who has ever lived.

    Sharkey was too good for me to consider him among the worst, so I excluded him when considering this. Carnera didn't "suck" but he's popularly regarded in those terms, so I did choose to address that.
     
  6. Sister Sledge

    Sister Sledge Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    A lot of these guys had lots of potential, and could have done much better than they actually did. Douglas and Seldon should have been much better fighters, but they lacked the necessary heart. Sharkey maxxed out on his potential. He was a good fighter, was not a good champion. I am not hating on Sharkey, but he is slightly overrated on this forum.
    Carnera was unfortunately remembered as a big good who tripped over his own feet, kind of like Valuev. If it was for his size advantage, he wouldn't be very good.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Carnera did not enjoy a size advantage over all his oponents.

    He gave up height and reach to Ray Impelitiare in a fight that was surposedly an eliminator for a title shot.

    He also gave up height and weight to Victorio Campollo.

    Neither of these men were world beaters but they were both ranked in the top 10 at one point or another.
     
  8. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    When considering Sharkey, I can't overlook his draw with Walker (and consider that as evidence he would not have been able to dethrone Tunney). As great as Mickey was, his success against heavyweight contenders was largely based on their relative lack of speed, but speed was Sharkey's biggest asset. (Fortunately for Walker, Jack didn't quite have Schmeling's punch.)
    Interestingly, Carnera handily defeated taller heavyweights than himself, specifically Ray Impellitiere and Victorio Campolo (2X). Loughran decisioned both Campolo and Impellitiere before his shot at Carnera, and Primo outscored him anyway. (Tommy would outpoint Impellitiere a second time after his HW title bid.) Carnera would have decisioned Valuev cleanly.

    Primo had huge feet (they look to be a good deal larger than Willard's), yet I haven't seen any footage of him literally tripping over his own two feet the way that clumsy clutz Ali did against Wepner. (Also in that match, Wepner, the heavyweight Willie Pep, gracefully slipped one of Muhammad's haymaker rights, causing "The Greatest" to pirouette completely around while Chuck waited impatiently in mid ring with his arms upraised in taunting exasperation.)

    King Levinski (twice), Uzcudun (twice), Loughran, Jimmy Maloney (avenging an earlier loss despite suffering with a broken rib), and a previously undefeated Art Lasky represent a very respectable assortment of decision wins.