Who is the biggest person Rocky Marciano fought?

Patterson was on the comeback trail in the early 70's. And Bonavena was the only quality opponent he defeated - in a fight that he had to rise off the canvas to beat. Ring Magazine had him ranked #5 in either 1971 or 1972 which I feel was high, but his name recognition might have had more to do with it, than his actual abilities displayed at that age.

His stamina was still serviceable, though I don't know how fast paced or intense some of those fights were. I doubt his punch resistance was as sturdy at that point as Mercer or Lyle's.

A year off is a long time for an aging fighter. And only fighting once in 18 months isn't terribly active. He was 36 years old and while always known as a tough customer was never all that good to begin with. How did he not show signs of losing it? what fights indicated this?

he was in good shape at 220 and gave fits to Lewis while even being around 240. The Mercer who troubled the hell out of Lewis would have been a tall order for the rock.

Lyle was 30 years old when he turned pro and around 35 when he peaked. He was a late bloomer. Not really practical to use the age/weight comparison. He was 216 for his fight with Shavers and 220 for his bout with Foreman, which I believe are probably the most notable performances of his career. Louis was 198 for his first round KO victory over Schmeling which I think can be chalked up as being at least ONE of his better showings. In either case, Lyle was a bigger man with two inches in height and an average 20 lbs more in weight while respectively compared at their best.

No. The difference isn't huge. Never thought it was. But its significant enough to consider when eliminating Joe Louis as the "bridge" between Marciano and Lyle-Mercer.

 

The time frames for the fights you're referring to are all over the place in respect to when those guys were either prime or pre-prime. In addition, the purpose of the discussion is to discern how they would do against Marciano while using a 37 year old Louis as a comparative gauge.

 

You're right.
Regarding Ray Mercer, he fought in the 91kg heavyweight class in the Olympics. That's 200 pounds. And he was about 27 or 28 years old already. He was in no way 'big frame' either, muscular but a bit narrow across ths shoulders if anything, but that might be an illusion due to large head or something. He never looked cut in the pros either. No way was he a bigger animal than Joe Louis. Mercer was a guy who was never quite conditioned right. He could have been a lot better if he'd kept his weight down, I suspect.

Ron Lyle was bigger than Joe Louis. But hardly much.

 

-He was #7 in 71 and #5 in 72. That would make him a consistent contender in that run, if not one of the top guys. Moving on.

-Who knows, Bivins and Charles were still knocking out bigger contender in that time and they failed to hurt him.

-Only getting stopped by Ray in a busy decade against top contenders. Knocking out Wood**** who was coming off an excellent win over Oma. Even after Louis he somehow stayed on his feet and endured a bad beating from Marciano in his final fight.

-Nah, Lewis didn't have a left hook which Holyfield exploited the hell out of against Mercer. He was a fat 240, Mercer just matched up well against Lewis.

-Louis was never listed shorter than 6'1.5" and as high as 6'3". When compared relative to the same age, fell in a similar weight range. Who knows what Lyle would have weighed if he started boxing as young as Louis? Tough sell on Lyle being significantlly naturally bigger.

 

I agree with all this.

 

Except the only decent guy he beat was Bonavena and five of nine ringside reporters gave the fight to Bonavena in match that Patterson himself said he was dissappointed with his performance... Being number five or anywhere near it was not terribly well justified. Now we can move on.

I haven't seen those fights to know that he wasn't hurt and I don't Charles or Bivens tested his chin the way that Earnie Shavers tested Lyles or Lennox Lewis tested Mercer's.

Okay so let's say that the guy had the ability to survive. So did Everett Martin. It didn't make him a world beater.

He was the best heavyweight in the world in his prime and Mercer fought him to a damn near even verdict.. Better than Louis getting sparked by the best heavyweight of HIS era and a heavyweight that both Lewis and Mercer would be even money in my book at beating.. but if you want to dismiss it because it doesn't suit the argument then we'll go with it.

I don't think any reasonable consensus would have Louis at 6'3" and the irrefutable fact is that he spent about 95% of his career weighing nowhere near 213 :good

 

Lennox Lewis's performance against a fat 238 pound Ray Mercer was poor. For a guy who was in-shape and in his prime and who a lot of people now actually claim is top 3 or 4 fighter of all-time, that was a shabby performance. If Mercer had actually been in shape .....

 

I thought it was an entertaining fight myself as did the people I watched it with.. If nothing else it was certainly a statement about Mercer's chin..

 

-So? Bonavena was a bad dude and one of the top guys of the late 60s/early 70s.

-We work with what we have.

-Savold was better than Big Foot, he beat some genuine good guys. At any rate, if we are measuring Louis' power, stopping a cagey survivor cold with one shot (IIRC) like that is a signficiant KO.

-One of the best, not the best. Lewis was still on the rebound at this time, and declining Holyfield did much better against a fitter Mercer. And Holyfield getting under the jab and punishing Mercer with short hooks is more signficant than a 6'5 Lewis trying to jab with Mercer.

-Truth may be in the middle, 6'2" seems fair. You are comparing a 24 year old Joe Louis to a 30+ year old Lyle. When at the same age, they were roughly the same weight in lean muscle. Just no case for Lyle being this significantlly naturally bigger man. I could understand if Louis was a jolly fat man, but he looks as ever bit as fit as Lyle. Two guys, the same age, near same height, same build, near same weight,both fit as can be ...they are simply near the same size. Pointing to one's weight when he was in his early 20s is what is irrelevant.

 

Entertaining fight, yes. But the par for a fat Mercer had been set, and Lewis was sub-par, certainly for a fighter who people rate so highly. Well, he barely won the fight. It's debatable.
Mercer had a great chin, yes.

 

Taking a controversial decision over a guy who is fringe = fringe.

Shavers, Lewis, Morrison, Witherspoon, etc. are good examples to work with.

I think Savold was finished and probably not too different than Foreman's KO of a shot Cooney. End of story.

Lewis was at the very least top three. Holyfield was an ATG as well. Spoon was old but still top 10 and a former two time champion. Mercer survived all of them and in some cases competitively. Not sure that this builds a case.

Significantly? No. Noticeably? Yes. Largely, when compared to Marciano? Absolutely.

 

-By what standard is Bonavena fringe? Top 10: 66-71, 73-74. Top 5: 68, 70, 71, 74. Rated as high #2 I believe. Two time World Title Challneger. In addition to Patterson, he gave Ali and Frazier hell with multiple wins over other contenders.

-So is Charles and Bivins. And they are better than at least 3 of the guys on that list.

-No. Cooney wasn't KOing any live contenders.

-Top 3 is acceptable. Builds a case for what? Marciano is also an all time great.

-Eh...Difference between Maricano vs Louis and Maricano vs Lyle would be roughly 1 inch and 2-5 lbs.

 

A Louis who was fighting about 13 pounds over this best weight and had a million miles on the odometer. Those would also be some differences.

 

-We aren't comparing 37 year old Louis to his 24 year old self, we are comparing him to a 33 year old Ron Lyle.

-Again unless Louis was carrying the weight in middle aged fat or had done some bulking I don't see the problem with his weight. He weighed no less than 207 since returning from the War in his 30s, it was a natural progression.

 

Joe Louis's best weight might have been around 207.
Buddy Baer seemed to think so.