Who is the greater figther: RJJ or Thomas Hearns

He beat Leonard in the second fight agreed. However, Leonard was old and was very much past it.

Duran is not as good a win as Toney, who has said in himself he was not weight drained before the fight.

Beneitiz is a better win than Hopkins at the stage of his career I agree, but not by as big a margin as Toney over Duran.

There wins over Hill are both very good, but the difference is Jones stopped Hill brutally in a fashion that nobody has done before or after. Performences have to be taken into account. Blasting an opponent out should not be held in the same regard as winning a reltivly close UD.

Then there is beating Ruiz, which regardless of what you think of Ruiz of a fighter it i a massive accompishment for a fighter who started at 154 to beat him easily, and many good Heavyweights failed to.

Add this to the fact that Hearns lost three times by knock out in his prime, abait twice to ATG's and the fact that Jones never lost or came close to losing in his prime, gives Jones the edge.

 

James Toney also beat Ruiz. The man was beat by two former Middleweights he is garbage.

 

What does that say about the other fighters that he beat?

 

atschatsch What does that have to do with anything? I was just replying to your dumb post about Jones having a Glass Jaw, if he did had a glass jaw how come he was never wobbled with any of Hopkins or Toney's shots? They may not have a 1 KO punch but they still have some power to hurt a "Glass jaw" in Jones.

 

It tells me that if Jones and Toney could move up and beat Ruiz that several other fighters could have also. I can't even score a Ruiz fight because there is so much clinching, grabbing, holding etc. He was not allowed to do that against Jones. (and rightfully so Jay Nady did an excellent job)

It tells me that when Ruiz is forced to fight by the rules he is helpless in a Boxing ring. Ruiz is perhaps one of the 3 worst Heavyweight beltholders in the last 25 years.

 

He was past it but so was Hearns. Very good win better than Jones over Hopkins.

Oh yeah it is. Duran gave up his jmw belt to face Hearns and just recently went 15 rounds with Hagler. That is up there with a win over the weight-drained Toney - and Toney was weight-drained that´s so obvious, still a very good win but not a great one.

Benitez is a far better win than the Hopkins win of Jones.

No, that´s not important because a boxer never will look as great in winning as a puncher blowing out his opponent. And Jones was nearer at his prime weight, 168, than Hearns, 154. And Hearns took away Hill´s "0". Hearns win over Hill is more impressive considereing he was three weight-classes above his best and past his prime and considering Hill was coming of a loss to DM going into the Jones fight.

Sorry, but the weight somebody started at is not important. But yeah, the win over Ruiz is a good one but doesn´t prove anything since Ruiz was taylormade for him. Jones picked the one hw champ that he knew he could beat. Why didn´t he fight again at that weight?

Losing to fighters like Leonard and Hagler is excusable since at least he fought guys of that caliber, Jones didn´t. Losing to Barkley is like losing to Tarver or Johnson. And sorry, before he lost to Tarver nobody talked about Jones beeing past it.
Jones has no egde over Hearns in resume. Sorry. You are a Roy Jones fan so you are biased. I´m neither a Jones fan nor a Hearns fan, so who is more objective?

 

I never said Jones had a glass jaw. It´s a bit shaky but well, Hearns wasn´t of iron either.

 

Regardless if you think Ruiz is rubbish to watch, he does not clinch in all of his fights, yes he clinch's too much. Clinching is a part of the sport and it is allowed to certain levels.

Ruiz beat plenty of decent fighters and has only ever been stopped once by a big puncher in Tua. He is no worse a fighter than Chris Byrd, Haseem, Rahman, Maskev etc. Those are fighters who were belt holders in the last 5 years.

 

Oh my bad, thought you were the guy that said that Jones had a glass jaw since you replied to my post.

I can't stand it when people act as if Jones had a glass jaw his whole carrier when he was first knocked out at the end of his carrier. It doesn't matter how good you are, you are bound to get hit flush a couple of times in your carrier, that's how it is in professional boxing, if you have a glass jaw then you are going down, in his prime Jones never showed any sign of this.

 

I could argue the points. But it is going to go round in circles, as we disagree about the relitive value of certain wins.

But the fact remains. I am a Roy Jones fan, I rank him on an ATG list pretty much around where most people rank him and answer questions on him pretty much objectivly.

You my friend have said very very few positives about Jones since I have seen you post. Infact I would go as far to say you were an intelligent hater. Not a ******ed one like Spadafora, clever and with good points just none to say about Jones.

196osh on Hearns, Tommy Hearns is one of my favorite fighters ever. Give the man a chin and in my opinion he is the greatest fighter of all time, he would have beaten Leonard and Hagler and have stopped Barkley in the 3rd or 4th.

He did not have a better resume than Roy Jones as it stands in my opinion. But potential wise he was one of the greats, also his chin was not as bad as people make out.

 

Of course he did.

Im not bothering to read the thread but I hope no idiot is disputing this.

 

Ruiz was, alongside with Byrd the best hw between Lewis and Wlad. But he was also the right style for Jones, he wouldn´t have beaten the other champs of the day.

You know, other great mws who fought at hw, like Fitzsimmons, Ketchel, Walker all fought the best hws of their day and gave up 40 or even more pounds. Jones picked the weakest and most beatable one. That´s a difference and that´s why he isn´t up there with them - with the exception of Ketchel who hasn´t a great resume either.

 

both fighter are great with in there own right , to try judge one by the other would be unjust to both fighters .

 

Right. We can agree here.

Yeah, you are the most objective Jones fanboy with the exception of kg. But still you never will be objective, just like I never will be objective with Hopkins - that´s why I try to avoid discussing him most of the time.

I totally dislike Jones as a person but I love watching him fight. He looks great inside a ring. And I´m totally dissapointed about him. He was destined to be a top10 atg but he threw away this potential by chosing the money way. That´s why he lacks the resume to be ranked up there with the atgs - like most of today´s greats like PBF, Calzaghe and even my man Hopkins.
I´m not a hater, more a very dissapointed fan. And I try to balance the nuthuggers who say he´s a top3 or top5 atg.
btw. I make good points about Jones, just rarely in his favour - look at the Jones-Leonard thread and what I have written there.

Well, I´m not that high of Hearns, even with a good chin he would have been beatable but he would be much greater than today.

Potential wise he is up there with Duran, Langford, Robinson but while those guys fullfilled their potential and showed the desire to be great Jones did not.
And sorry but Hearns has the better resume but you know I rank fighter in a tier system and Jones would be in the same tier as Hearns alongside with Hopkins, PBF and Hagler - also I don´t consider any of them as an real atg, I only recognize 25 as such and they aren´t up there.