Who is the greatest of them all?

Benitez and Laing dominated Duran.

 

Good lists, tho the non-mention of Henry Armstrong from BOTH lists is baffling as I assume these guys have viewed & know all about him.

Anyway, here`s my list consisting of fighters that I have viewed & know a fair amount about.......


1. Sugar Ray Robinson (Most complete fighter, best ever WWT, arguably best ever MWT, 5 time MWT champ, 25 yr career from 1940-65, 202 fights & 175 victories)

2. Muhammad Ali (Most charasmatic sportsman ever, best ever HWT, danced like a LWT, 1st 3 time HWT champion, fought & came out top in HWTs best ever era)

3. Willie Pep (Best ever FWT, best pure boxer, best defence, had about 230 wins with just 11 defeats, could easily have been no2)

4. Henry Armstrong (Best ever swarmer, held FWT, LWT & WWT at same time & defended the WWT crown about 20 times)

5. Roberto Duran (Complete fighting machine, best ever LWT, legit 4 weight world champ, fought in 5 different decades from 1967-2000s)

6. Sugar Ray Leonard (1 of most complete fighters, great adaptability, 5 weight world champ, beat some of the best that ever lived)

7. Joe Louis (1 of most complete textbook fighters ever, 2nd best HWT, superb combination of speed & power, 25 title defences for 11 yrs)

8. Julio cesar Chavez (Best ever mexican, tough as nails, body puncher supreme, 87-0 at one point, 3 weight world champ)

9. Pernell Whitaker (1 of the best defences & LWT boxers ever, legit 4 weight champ, master southpaw boxer)

10. Floyd Mayweather jr (I dont want to hear it, you know his story)


HM - Salvador Sanchez, Roy Jones jr, Marvin Hagler, Alexis Arguello.



Botswana :good

 

Just a standard BBC list isnt it. They try to cater for all sports and tastes but they have no real fans working on it, just multi-taskers.

 

Nail on the head.

To be fair, the lists are probably better than most with a casual knowledge of the sport. They do need a dedicated boxing writer though who knows what they're talking about!

 

Post 1945.I made the same mistake.....

 

I missed that too atsch

Looking at them again, does a post 1945 Joe Louis deserve as high a spot as both writers give him?

I am taking nothing away from one of the top 3 HW's of all time (my #2 HW), but a post 1945 Joe Louis as a top 4 P4P? In terms of whole career Joe could be there (just!) but a post '45???

 

Just as washed up as Duran was at that stage of his career.

Not to mention Saddler hardly dominated him. He did in the first fight, was dominated in the rematch, and was being outboxed handily in the next two fights before Pep's injury and quit-job.

Not to mention wins over one fighter don't merit that kind of ranking, period. Especially given the stage of said fighter's career for at least two of the wins, the way the bouts unfolded, and the fact that Saddler's edge was more a styles dillema for Pep than anything (Saddler lost his previous fight and the next 3 consecutively after his last win over Pep, which should either give an indication of just how far removed from his prime Pep was, or that Saddler was just a difficult styles matchup). Saddler is flat out overrated because of those wins IMO. His secondary achievements, while good, probably wouldn't even merit a claim for a top 60-70 spot on ATG lists.

 

Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest of them all, and still is today.

 

I think the BBC Boxing 'Experts' are as confused as us on this point.

" JOE LOUIS (US)
1934-51; 68-3, 54KOs
The first black fighter to be world heavyweight champion since Jack Johnson in 1908, Louis held the title for 11 years, defending it 25 times.
His two pre-war bouts with Germany's Max Schmeling gripped the world ...."

 

How can you have a best of all time list and NOT have Henry Armstrong?

Terrible, terrible lists.

 

I look at lists on here by people and wonder how they don't have Ray Leonard included.

 

Here is my pick. Although these lists are pointless. To be honest any of the top 3 could be moved around/ Oh and yes there are no heavyweights in my list
1. Robinson
2. Duran =
2.Armstrong =
4.Pep
5.Whitaker
6.Leonard
7.Chavez
8.Roy Jones
9. Mayweather
10.Sanchez

 

my list is something like this (all time)

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
The most complete fighter ever had the skills, the chin, the speed, the heart and the power.

2. Muhammed Ali
Changed the rulebook for heavyweights, moved like Pep and jabbed like Pastrano with his hands down by his side. Showed later in his career he had the brains, chin and will to match his amazing Physical qualities he had early in his career.

3. Henry Armstrong
The only man to hold 3 titles simultaniously. He was perpetual motion always throwing and chasing and applied the most pressure of any fighter i have ever seen.

4. Willie Pep
My favourite fighter of all time. He was the best ever defensive fighter i have seen. He had great movement constantly just out of range when you wanted to hit him and just in range when he wanted to hit you. Also had IMO THE best jab ever as he could outjab anyone even taller fighters.

5. Joe Louis
Was dominant in the Heavyweight see during the 40s. He had a great style that wore fighters down leaving them open for his two fisted power. Also the longest reigning champ of any weight clas.

6. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
The brilliant Ambidextorous Champion who could fight equally as good as an orthodox or a southpaw. He dominated the middleweight division during the 80s with his excllant rounded skills often remebered as a great attacking fighter but had underrated defensive skills. He was a great no frills fighter who got his job done efficiently.

7. Sugar Ray Leonard
A brilliant 5 weight champion who holds a deicion over Hagler. He was a fast boxer who had great accuracy combined with a powerful punch. In many ways the opposite of Hagler as he was a showman who would often steal rounds off of fighters but showed in a brutal fight with Hearns he had great heart, chin and desire to win.

8. Carlos Monzon
Dominated the Middleweights during the 70s with his brilliant jab and even better straight right coupled with granite chin and a methodical stalking style, he was often the slower fighter but overcame this with his strength size and skills.

9. Ezzard Charles
Ranked more highly by other people which shows how good he was. He was a brilliant Light heavy beating 2 world champions in the form of moore and Maxim but was never giving a title shot until he moved up to heavy and beat Jo walcott for the title then before losing it to Joe Walcott. He also pushed Marciano close in another failed title attempt.

10. Roberto Duran
A man who personified Macho. He had the great chin and heart complemented by his power and effective attacking style. He as a lightweight was unbeatable as a champion. He possesed great defensive skills aswell as his famous attacking skills.

Honourable mentions: Pernell Whittaker, Archie Moore, Thomas Hearns, Julio Cesaer Chaves and Jimmy Wilde

 

From the available choices:

Robinson
Charles
Duran
Pep
Ali
Moore
Leonard
Louis
Burley
Whitaker