Who is the H2H Heavyweight GOAT in your opinions? poll

Norton WAS past his best, and beyond that, he did not "clearly win". Black Hercules came on very aggressive during those 15 rounds but it was very ineffective, just go back and watch how little he gets through to Holmes.

Holmes didn't beat any ATG in their prime, and even if Norton was at his peak, he wasn't one. One time champion and not many good wins other than Ali... Not exactly ATG material.

 

That was my point all along Holmes never beat a prime ATG

 

So untalented he became the best H2H fighter of his era - Roger that.

 

Wlad, even tho he was great, did cherry pick sometimes. His stretch between Haye and Povetkin: Jean-Marc Mormeck, Tony Thompson (whom he already beat), Mariusz Wach and Francesco Pianeta was weak as hell. But it's a flaw of all long reigns. Holmes included.

 

Behind you on this 1000% it’s been done to death that Norton is an ATG off the back of one win… Who else gets that much mileage? Schmeling sure doesn’t.
In his PRIME he cut it razor close with a SHOT Ali losing the only time Ali was in shape. @cross_trainer pointed this out to me every time he fought a boxer type Ali, Holmes, Young he didn’t run over them - he wasn’t a “terror” for those sort of guys like everyone says, they either beat him outright, might’ve beat him or could’ve earned a draw. Norton never won convincingly.
His career was besides Ali he beat a shot Quarry avenged a loss to Garcia 5 years later then Bobick and maybe Young who was the best of them but not great or underrated.
Of all the 60-70s HWs Kenny is one of my favourites I like his work ethic, I love his positive attitude and how he conducted himself in his career but he was what he was a very good boxer but not a boxer I’d call a “great”.

 

Oh and what “ATG” HW did George Foreman beat in his prime? Which ATG did Norton beat in his prime?

 

I wasn't here for the whole argument. Was that point trying to lead up to something?

 

So you don't consider Frazier an ATG even the version of Norton Foreman smashed was close to an ATG and better than the version Holmes beat

Also tough fights with Holyfield, Ali and a win over Moorer is a much stronger resume than most Heavies

 

Frazier was not prime everyone agrees on that surely.
Norton wasn’t an ATG read my above post. Tough fights you lose don’t mean you beat an ATG.
So to answer it for you neither Norton or Foreman beat one prime ATG.

 

So Frazier at 29 years old and less than two years from perhaps the single best win in heavyweight history in the FOTC is no longer prime how exactly do you reach this conclusion

 

Frazier had a lot taken out of him from the FOTC, it's easily seen.

 

You can't claim a prime is only for 1 fight, age 29 is the perfect age for a boxer. It's his own fault if he wasn't active even if he was his style was tailor made for Foreman and the result wouldn't have been any different

 

I never claimed as such. A pre-FOTC Frazier was superior to a post one, just think of his prime as a rise up towards the FOTC, and then a quick decline after.

 

Foreman can only beat the fighter in front of him, he was the massive underdog going into the fight whether Frazier was slacking that's on him and at 29 he is in his physical prime, boxers have always taken some fights not as seriously normally against lesser opponents, it doesn't change the fact Foreman smashed him in 2, smashed him again in the rematch and would have smashed the Frazier from the FOTC

 

I agree. All fighters can do is face those men that are put in front of them, but you have to take that into account for Holmes as well if you're gonna do it for Foreman. If we put Holmes in Foreman's shoes, he would've done even better.