Who is the H2H Heavyweight GOAT in your opinions? poll

Now your assuming if Holmes fought the Frazier and Ali Foreman did I don't think he would have been favourite in the fights

 

I'm not "assuming" a hypothetical that I put as an afterthought. I agreed with you that all a man could do was fight whoever was put in front of him, and added on that I believe that Holmes would've done better than Foreman if he was put in the same position- If we do the reverse, my point still stands, George's record would look worse if he was put into Larry's era and faced the same opposition that he did. I don't see the relevance of him being or not being a favorite in either fight.

 

If a prime Foreman faced the opposition Holmes did I actually place him favourite over all his opponents even Tyson and Holyfield

If a prime Holmes faced Frazier or Ali I don’t think he’d be favourite in either fight

 

Once again, I don't know why fighters being favorites is relevant here. I also believe that Foreman would struggle more with Holmes opposition than he did with his.

 

Being favourite indicates the likely outcome, no guarantee of a win but the likely result.

Foreman has a stronger resume than Holmes, an overall better career and if they were to fight each other in their primes I personally would favour Foreman 60/40

 

I was making the point that Foreman only has the stronger looking resume due to better remembered names, and that was mainly due to the era he predominantly fought in.
Foreman beat Frazier twice, as well as Peralta twice, Chuvalo, Lyle, and Norton- But also lost to Ali and Jimmy Young.
Whereas Holmes beat Shavers twice, as well as Norton, Weaver, Berbick, L. Spinks, Snipes, Cooney, Witherspoon, M. Frazier, Smith, and Williams- But also lost to M. Spinks twice (Robbed in the second bout), and Mike Tyson.
I left out names on both sides, but the few more I allow on Foreman's side, much more names will pour on on Holmes's side.
If you really compare the two's resumes in their respective base eras, Holmes comes out on top.

 

None of the names on Holmes record compares to Frazier

 

I think Povetkin, Haye, and Byrd would have been problematic for Larry.

 

So Foreman has a superior record to Holmes because of the Frazier win, and he's clearly an ATG- But Norton isn't despite his superior win over Ali? You can't raise records off of one name alone.

 

I think that they'd be tough fights, but not enough to make Holmes lose. You could measure up men like Witherspoon, Williams, and Weaver, and they would be tough fights for Wlad too, but not impossible.

 

I actually think Norton is an ATG or very close to one but he was never the man in the division like Frazier, didn't win the title in the ring from a champion and doesn't have a gold medal so comparing Norton to Frazier is stupid

 

Is that why he never became Champion of the division, in one of the most putrid eras of its history? More significantly, are you going to follow me from thread to thread looking for a fight now?

 

Put the bloke on ignore like I did long ago. One of the most atrocious posters I've ever come across this site.

 

Seems worth considering more with each day.

 

He was never "the man" because he didn't have a chance in his time. Both him and Frazier were under the tutelage of Eddie Futch, he got completely poleaxed by Foreman, and the two times he beat Ali were either when Muhammad didn't possess the title or when he was robbed. Comparing Norton and Frazier is in no way "stupid"- They both are some of the best the 70s Heavyweight division had to offer, and both have legacies tied to the same man. Though Frazier is of course much more accomplished.

And if we ARE going to raise records off of one name alone, the Norton win is much more impressive than the Frazier win. Norton's style is the direct counter to Holmes style, and he STILL controlled the fight with ease en route to an easy decision in his first 15 rounder- Whereas Foreman had an insanely good stylistic matchup and only needed two rounds to get a TKO off of Frazier.