Who is the H2H Heavyweight GOAT in your opinions? poll

That’s something we will have to agree to disagree on you think Holmes would be favourite over Foreman H2H

 

I do. Holmes is obviously superior to the Ali that beat Foreman, and even if they weren't in Zaire, I would've picked Ali to win. Holmes is just all wrong for Foreman.

 

I don't agree 100% but this is a superb post, D!!!

 

I don’t think Holmes has the endurance or ring smarts to withstand Foreman for 8 rounds you have to remember Shavers really shook up Larry

 

Larry went 23 rounds with Shavers and knocked him out, outpointed Smith before stopping him on cuts in 10, 12 with Weaver before stopping him while Holmes himself had the flu, 13 with Cooney before stopping him, 12 with Witherspoon, and was not stopped once against any single one of these strong men. Holmes beat every single man put in front of him before Michael Spinks, and it wasn't due to something as simple as strength.

 

None of those guys were elite level and to say all Foreman had was strength and power is really underselling him even Ali admitted not being able to avoid the danger zone for the whole fight due to Foreman’s ability to cut the ring off how exactly does Holmes survive if he can’t rely on his footwork

 

I slightly favour Foreman personally, insofar as Holmes would perhaps not be able to elude him entirely for six rounds or so, & did tend to trade when hurt. He also never faced anyone anywhere close to as deadly as Foreman until Tyson (please, don’t mention Shavers as being in the same class).

It’s a near 50-50 fight though, I do agree that the style match-up favours Holmes.

 

1st off, brushing all of these men as non-elites doesn't make sense unless you also want to call Frazier (At the time that Foreman beat him), Norton, and Moorer non-elites too. It's not like Foreman beat prime Ali, Lewis, and Liston back to back to back. Hell, the Witherspoon that Holmes faced was superior to Foreman's best three wins, but it seems like you just rate matches off of name recognition.

And yes, Foreman's cornering ability was amazing, but I'm sure we can agree that a prime Holmes is much more light footed than the Ali that George faced.

 

I skim a thread I see something someone says i respond, it’s nothing to whine about I just find what you’re saying here bizarre.
Most people as a general thing will call Vitali the better H2H fighter between him and his brother that’s not strange…
At one time him or his brother were the best in the world undeniably and at one of the most difficult sports there is, to reach that point you have to be talented.

 

& which talents are those? Name them.

 

If being the best in the world isn’t an obvious enough clue he was special your standards are bizarre and very personal.
Who are some talented heavyweights Ney? I don’t think Vitali is a top 10 HW or anything of the sort just that he had the be talented to be the “king of the beasts” at one time.
You can’t not be blessed at the top.
Even if there was is only 1000 HW pro boxers he’s a 1/1000 talent if he’s at the top.

 

He was never Champion. Don’t give me any BS about this belt or that.

Should be easy to name his talents though based on your last post, right?

 

He had his own flesh and blood to contend with he did the right thing IMO by not fighting his literal little brother. I didn't claim anything of the sort about his trinket belt lol what are you on about Ney?
Go make a thread and ask the old question.... most people will say when both brothers were active and at the top of a national sport - Vitali was better H2H thus arguably the best heavyweight in the world that has always been the most popular opinion and not an odd one.
Even if he was just the 3rd best - Is the 3rd best Chess Player in the world not talented? nor the 4th or the 5th? answer me that Ney. It should be easy to point out some (Maybe 10?-15?) HW fighters who were talented? lol as you have a very personalised, exclusive definition of talented I'd like to try and answer your question but you're not giving me much to work with. Maybe explain how some of those guys were talented IYO?

 

If your ‘92’ refers to your age, you are probably a little too young to recall that big brother wasn’t at all the consensus better fighter until junior started getting knocked out & his chin was exposed. Opinions balanced out thereafter based on big brother being exactly what his sibling wasn’t…durable. But he was never thought of as better prior to that.

Now, let’s get back on point. I won’t ask you again, if you’d like to dodge it once more. What were these talents?

 

You are not the Gestapo buddy this is a two way conversation - If I ask for clarification on something it's on your manners I've asked multiple questions that will help me answers your question which I am happy to do. I am not "competing" to try and "Win" a silly forum debate - reread my post and clarify or kick rocks lol.