Who is the higher ranked ATG James Toney or Joe Calzaghe?

For all his shortcomings Toney has achieved more in the sport and faced better opposition.

 

Toney could have retired after his win over Oquendo and called it a proper, successful HW campaign. Wins over undefeated Rydell Booker, Holyfield, a win over Rahman, Guinn, and Ruiz, along with his tight losses to Sam Peter. A very successful run if you ask me, especially for a guy coming up from MW once upon a time.

Regardless of how low he sinks plodding forward in a career that should have ended when he realized he could not beat the very best of the division, he is still a top 25 p4p ATG IMO. :deal

 

:verysad
He doesn't have a win over Ruiz it was a no contest, he also doesn't have a win over Rahman he has a draw and a no contest.

 

when people start talking about Toney at HW, i smell a ****** who doesn't know wtf he's talking about.

 

I watched the fights. He has two wins over Rahman and a win over Ruiz. The first Rahman fight was closer than it shouold have been with DKP influencing the outcome, but James didn't leave it to the judges in the second go around. He made Rahman to look like a bum and stopped him. :yep

 

:deal he has 2 average wins at heavyweight and used roids while up there. That IMO diminishes his ATGreatness a fair amount. He never dominated a division either whereas calzaghe did 2. when he faced his biggest opponents he lost or drew (jones, McCallum before he was beaten by toney at 40) he also has 2 loses against griffin and thadzi who are pretty mediocre opposition.

I still rank Toney higher but it's a lot closer than people think. People seem to ignore loses a lot when talking about how someone ranks as an ATG or hold the loses to heavily against them. Toney edges calzaghe in an ATG sense however Calzaghe h2h IMO beats toney

 

Ok then, Ali has 3 loses against norton and another loss to jimmy young. Is he now the greatest heavyweight of all time? Also when you roid before a fight it doesn't count as you winning

 

The difference between Floyd and Pacquiao is record, chin, and ppvs sold at ww. Floyd is heads above Floyd in those departments caveman.

 

:deal

 

I am not sure either of them are bona fide ATGs.

Toney juiced a LOT, which discredits his already diminutive HW record. At best hes a SWM and LH force who fell short when he met a real ATG (RJJ). Hes a very minor ATG at best, but I am not sure a couple of divisions of clean work qualify for ATG - lots of people do that these days. What stands out are the opposition he did beat that dwarfs Calzaghe's resume's best offerings.

Calzaghe fought for a minor title against middling or past it oppositiion for 98% of his career, albeit holding it a VERY long time, which doesnt qualify for ATG at all, but definitely HOF ie famous for sticking to it longer than anyone else bothered to, but persistence alone doesnt make you a great.

Toney ahead then, but H2H would be touch and go. Probably Toney the edge on one night, but he didnt have the mindset to win a best of 3 between them.


On a side note, why is Toney so crap in Fight Night 3? Hes like the Mummy, so slow.

 

Toney's done more, but also has way more negatives: busted for steriods, embarrasing weight issues, loses to nobodies; while Calzaghe is undefeated.

Really, you need a clear criteria other than the opinions of a bunch of assholes in an internet forum.

 

Great post. These threads are often pointless because people create their own criteria for "greatness" to tie in with their agenda. They alter the criteria to suit the fighter.

Toney achieved more than Calzaghe, across a wider weight range, but there are so many controversies and letdowns in his career that any pro-Toney post is ripe for a counter-argument.