Who is the most overrated heavyweight, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Tyson Fury, or others?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Sep 18, 2022.

  1. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Though I'm not sure it's possible to overrate the 80s Tyson, from a career perspective probably.

    I've had people name drop Mike as the Greatest Fighter of All Time more times than I can count. They all look blankly when I mention Sugar Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, most often Muhammad Ali...

    Granted, most of these are casuals.
     
  2. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :lol:
     
  3. EnzoRD

    EnzoRD Well-Known Member Full Member

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    There's so many overated Heavyweights prior to the 90s that's it really hard to tell. My gut tells me, maybe coz they're all American and USA hasn't had a real heavyweight world champion in 20+ years.
     
  4. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I suggest you look up the word quit in the dictionary. Ali did not quit against Holmes. A boxer refusing to get off his stool or leaving the ring before the match is over is quitting. Laying on the ropes with your hands up getting punched simply means you're getting beat up and losing the fight. If Ali wanted to quit he would have done so.
     
  5. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This forums hates Briggs for no reason whatsoever. The guy is funny as hell, always in shape, respects his mother, inspires kids, and is a crowd pleasing slugger who always gave it his best in the ring every single time. He's like a more playful Ron Lyle.
     
  6. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't dislike Briggs but i think the hate come from his gift decision over Foreman, who was well liked at the time especially the older Foreman. But i don't really have much of an opinion on him, but i do think his record really inflates what he was actually capable of. But he's normally an entertaining fighter with good power so no real hate from me. The only real issue with Briggs is his horrible stamina not helped because of his asthma.
     
  7. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    There are two guys who routinely crack top ten heavyweight lists who have two or fewer legitimate title defenses. They are a great starting point for overrated heavyweights.
     
  8. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If I managed 70's Foreman I would have had him fight Bugner after beating Norton if available. Bugner wasn't as much of a physical powerhouse is Foreman, but he was a tall guy (slightly taller than Ali), and knew how to survive with decent skills and a solid chin. Foreman probably wouldn't be able to just bulldoze him because Bugner knew how to go into his shell and survive (he made the great Ali fail his KO prediction). This would force Foreman to pace himself and not be greedy/have bloodlust for the knockout. I would remind him between rounds that the goal is to win and to not punch himself out (planting seeds in preparation for the Ali fight).

    With Liston he was similarly a victim of his own success as you pointed out. He didn't burn himself out thr way Foreman did, but he simply hit so hard that Patterson couldn't really challenge him. He landed almost every big punch he threw with tremendous accuracy and savagery. He had cleared out the division, so how could he possibly be ready for Ali even with the benefit of hindsight? Who could help him be active for more than 2 rounds in 2 years?

    In the 60's you had the a few possible candidates. Doug Jones was a decent cagey guy who wouldn't stand right in front of Liston. Terrel wasn't as fast as Ali, but he had the height and survival skills. Chuvalo and Bonavena would be good stay busy fights to allow Liston to gets plenty of rounds in and maintain his good stamina and discipline as they're very unlikely to be stopped early. The main problem was Ali was a mandatory so you could only squeeze in maybe 1-2 of these fights either before or after the Patterson rematch if the sanctioning bodies allow it.
     
  9. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Members who know No Neck know those names by heart.
     
  10. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    All good points.

    I’ve always felt that Ali was “lucky” to have had such a tough, almost full 15 round workout vs Ringo. Imagine if he somehow rolled Oscar in 3 rounds? Outstanding result yes, but how much more of a shock to the system would the FOTC then have been?

    A very critical lead in fight and without same who knows if Ali could’ve seen out the fulll 15 rounds vs Frazier - given that even for FOTC, Ali was still not at best possible second career form, including his now reduced stamina potential which still wasn’t up to scratch in its own diminished right.

    Bugner would’ve been a good work out for Foreman - of course we know we’re talking some risk here but you can’t bury your head in the sand and ignore developing your fighter - such avoidance bodes for absolute disaster down the track.

    I don’t see Quarry troubling Foreman as much as some believe but I think Jerry would’ve definitely provided sufficient resistance for a very good workout also.

    I really liked Foreman’s performance in the Frazier rematch. He tempered himself for future bouts where that type of meter might’ve been a must - vs Joe it wasn’t a must or really necessary and with the mindset of Jamaica George, poor Joe might’ve been KO’d in just a few rounds again.

    Imo, one of the more crucial nuances to learn would’ve been knowing when to break the meter and step on the metal for an abbreviated, full on assault.

    Say, if Foreman saw the opp., he could still blast away 100% but know enough to desist and full back into pacing if the KO isn’t necessarily yielded.

    As it was, due to the overhang trauma of his Zaire fatigue, perhaps comeback Foreman was a wee bit too fixated upon meter, not reacting fully to as and when opportunities which might’ve seen a quicker end had George fully unloaded.

    At any rate, perhaps too much extrapolation but a better metered, more relaxed young Foreman, duly reacting to opportunities with unbridled power and then falling back into sensible pace/meter would’ve been quite the fighter again.
     
  11. PerpetualMotion

    PerpetualMotion New Member Full Member

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    Mike Tyson, by a long shot. The most NPC/normie tailored fighter that's ever lived. Not in the fraudulent AJ "stay humble yo" PC friendly media darling sense, but in the sense that he is everything the casualeros and popcorn chugging pugilliterates "fans" want from the sport. Which is to say explosive, quick early round KO's and lots of action. Regardless to whether or not that kind of fighter will naturally fade and become increasingly gassed, demoralized and frustrated as the fight goes on. Tyson's "bad boy" thug demeanour and shenanigans outside the ring did wonders to boost his reputation, especially amongst other thugs and other assorted scumbags. The media naturally ate it all up and regurgitated it, boosting him even more amongst the general public. The reality is Tyson was an overrated, overhyped, mentally fragile bully that got handled as soon as he stepped up to literal warriors like Holyfield (also past his prime) and to a lesser degree Lennox. Tyson was still a tremendous fighter and probably the most dynamic and entertaining of all time. But his hype and the fear/sycophancy exuded in his fans/interviewers/professional scrotum lickers makes me nauseous.
     
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  12. PerpetualMotion

    PerpetualMotion New Member Full Member

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    Not possible in the sense that he looked phenomenal in most of the earlier fights, lost none of them and won most by KO's that were executed in an unprecedentedly explosive and entertaining way ala Jack Dempsey. He was also a very small, albeit compact HW for the time, which naturally looks impressive when beating much taller bigger guys, albeit guys that were lacking heavily in skill, heart, athleticism or all three.

    Very possible in the sense that the majority of said opponents were scared to death of him, paralyzed with fear and demoralized with the likelihood of defeat before the bell had even rung. Not to mention the number of puddings, creampuffs and cans amongst them. As well as ongoing or recovering crack and heroin addicts i.e Tyrell Biggs & Pinklon Thomas.

    Tilis, Smith, Green, Tucker (probably the best of his ops thus far) all took him the distance, despite being pretty mediocre fighters. Got absolutely smashed by a totally fearless, albeit flu stricken Buster Douglas, who was mourning a dead mother and a potentially dying relative. Yet all you'll ever hear from the Tysonians is Mike's own hardships and excuses I.e the Japanese hookers and nightlife he indulged in. As well as the infamous "long count" which is a completely debunked lie. Fabricated ironically enough by Don King, who Tyson fans can't blame hard enough in regards to every other failing.
     
  13. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    LOL, Briggs is crazy - but a good crazy. Hard not to like the guy. Not to overrate him, he was what he was and he certainly wasn’t awful. Lewis doesn’t give out compliments easily, so when he does - as he has re Briggs, it tends to raise the ears up.
     
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  14. ThatOne

    ThatOne Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Cheating is hitting a guy in the jewels, hitting a guy on the break, rabbit punching, hitting after the bell, holding and hitting, leading with your head. Almost every boxer holds. Watch Lewis-Tyson or Pacquiao- Mayweather, two big fights, for starters.
     
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  15. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I watched Patterson vs Chuvalo recently, now I like George but his rabbit punching was outrageous - and he actually looked foolish executing same. And doing it to pure of heart Floyd Patterson of all people!

    Floyd body punched Ellis several times on one occasion and then immediately rubbed the targeted area to mitigate any damage.

    That’s not just something you don’t see every day, it’s something you never see on any day. Floyd, a true original.