Who is the most overrated heavyweight, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Tyson Fury, or others?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Sep 18, 2022.

  1. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I know you may not like the man but you can’t possibly mean some of the stuff you wrote. Quarry, Bonavena, Lyle and Terrell B level boxers? Cmon. That’s four of the BEST contenders to ever strap em on. Look at each of those men’s top five wins and you can not give many with better wins then those men. If they’re not great contenders then no one is
    Folley was past it when they fought but he was no bum. ever.
    No heavyweight will ever come close to beating the amount of decent to great fighters that Ali beat. Beating what 32 ranked men? How many had Fury even fought? 3? 4?
     
  2. SomeFella

    SomeFella Member Full Member

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    How do you rate skill aside from resume and acheivements? No one would disagree with the rest.

    He got the nod because he outlanded him. He was still a developing fighter, and close fights aren't robberies.
    You have no proof Liston was in his early 40s, regardless Liston was still the reigning heavyweight champion who avenged his only loss twice over. And the shoulder injury and "Barely training" could easily be excuses.
    To be fair Williams wasn't prime to say the least, however he had time to heal and shake off ring rust, and was comprehesively dominated still, for what its worth.
    No proof and Patterson was a natural HW evidenced by his resume and championship in the Hw division.
    Folley was no bum, he was obviously a solid contender based on his resume, a gatekeeper by the time Ali fought him, to be fair.
    That depends on what you define a B level as, to be fair, but that isn't necessarily true Lyle and Bonavena have respectable resumes and Quarry a very good one.
    Still good enough to clean out the division and remain undefeated.
    Ali still won 2-1.
    That happens often with referees, Not enough to dismiss the fight completly where Ali showed improvement.
    There is no evidence for that that im aware of, but regardless Ali still won fair and square.
    He gave a past it but dominant Ali 3 tough fights that's the primary reason people find him a respectable fighter, yes, however most knowledgeable fans don't consider him a true great. And you have to be pretty good to take Ali that far in the first place, and his punching power isn't relevant. Also every fighter has a bad stylistic matchup.
    Injuries are not scoring criteria, and every fighter has fights that could go either way. and the 2nd fight was very competitive where ali was fully switched on. And again he wasn't prime.
    if this, if that. Ali still beat a dangerous puncher while past his prime.
    Proof of a harder puncher?
    Foreman wasn't particularly slow and wasn't unskilled either. If he was then he was a undefeated champion who later became the oldest titlist at 45, a probably unbeatable record. Pretty good for slow and unskilled.
    A display of skill, no? I would say "hardly" as apposed to "never".
    Acomplished quite a lot cosidering, and as for his speed ,reflexes, ect. is that not a part of him as a fighter?
    Not by enough to put that as the primary credit to his success.
    I would dissagree with some of your choises probably, but the thing is pretty much no knowledgeable fan rates him at 1st place p4p.
    I see. Sorry if I came off as pushy.
    I rather sure It was a referee error, but regardless Liston was dominated and died before he could work his way back up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
  3. ThatOne

    ThatOne Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Liston threw out his shoulder for the same reason Patterson threw out his back. Punches that miss will do that to ya.
     
  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Weird how he had liniment in his corner.
     
  5. ThatOne

    ThatOne Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's a treatment for sore muscles, muscles that became even more sore when he was swinging at air. He looked fine when the fight began. Pacquiao had a torn rotator cuff for his fight with Floyd. Does Floyd get an asterisk? I would say no. Floyd won, fair and square. If you get in the ring I'll assume you're whole or you shouldn't fight.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
  6. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    Never said he wasn't an ATG. I'm saying during his comeback, no matter how great it was, to this day has fans claiming Holyfield would've lost the rematch, Tyson ducked him, Bowe didn't want him after beating Holyfield etc. when his record shows he struggled with every ranked fighter he fought.

    I have Big George ranked #8 in my ATG heavyweight Top 10. Has some great wins on top of a mostly thin resume.
     
  7. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    "Those findings were confirmed in a formal investigation immediately after the fight by
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    Richard Gerstein, who also noted that there was little doubt that Liston went into the fight with a sore or lame shoulder."
     
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  8. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    Good post, and I agree with the 10 year come back. Foreman enjoyed huge size advantages over every opponent, I just don't see Foreman beating Iron Mike no matter how disinterested Tyson was at the time. Ruddock was a more dangerous fighter than Foreman.

    I do think we missed out on Tyson-Foreman because for me, that was the biggest heavyweight SuperFight fans wanted to see most, me included. Those magazine covers were sold out and to this day are hard to find. Luckily I still have them locked up safely.
     
  9. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't think we can overrate the Bowe who beat Holyfield 1.
     
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  10. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    B level boxers still means that they are pretty good, just not good enough for world class/ATG level.
     
  11. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Fair enough but as far as quality you can’t say anyone beat more. Not at HW. I can see how he may be overrated H2h in a sense no one picks against him when he likely has problems w some people. But I can’t see the argument against his competition
     
  12. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I agree that Ali being on the verge of quitting in Manila is exaggerated. If it was true, we would've seen Ali quit against Holmes, when Ali had more reasons to quit well before round 10 and even then it was Ali's corner who actually stopped the fight at the finish of the round. Holmes himself also said that Ali would die before yielding.
     
  13. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There’s a surprise.
     
  14. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I despair
     
  15. JunlongXiFan

    JunlongXiFan KC ATR: 45-6 SR: 45-6 Full Member

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    I don't like this tactic fans use. "32 contenders" like Floyd beat "26 champs". Beating some guy who was ranked in the top 10 five years ago is not the same as beating a contender.