Who is the most overrated heavyweight, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Tyson Fury, or others?

What I post is legitimate criticism. And I don't dislike Ali.

 

Putting the official decision aside, you don’t think Foreman actually beat Briggs? I think George won that fight.

 

George might have beat Briggs, but Briggs ain't exactly a world class boxer, is he

 

Good enough to subsequently challenge Lewis and give him an almighty fright.

 

No - no contemporary report mentions Ali saying anything like "nobody's going to believe this." That includes Jerry Izenberg, who - despite what he would claim decades later - on the night just heard it as "Get up you sucker! Get up you sucker!"

https://ibb.co/Fmknyh3

 

Some of the higher profile, so called historians of boxing are woeful.

They’ll exaggerate/modify to make anything sound better, their own egos are very much involved also - all they end up doing is making things murkier and burying the real truth.

Izenberg has also said that Liston was much older than he claimed and everyone as at the time knew it. That’s fine but you’d expect the production of something in support to follow that claim - Izenberg gives nothing.

Just on Ali saying “get up” - perhaps I’m the only one who sees it as significant but note after Ali motions and demands Liston to arise - shortly thereafter, when Liston had only been down for about 6-7 secs - Ali begins his encircling victory dance, as if preempting victory.

That’s not the action of a fighter concerned that a fix and/or dive is taking place nor a fighter who wants his opponent to arise and correct matters.

Virtually every aspect of the Lewiston fight is controversial, self contradicting and replete with mixed messages. A HOT mess.

 

If I remember rightly Izenberg also claimed that he was the one who told the photographer to take the iconic shot of Ali standing over Liston's fallen body. Without his input the photographer would presumably have just sat there like a simpleton waiting for something more significant to happen.

 

LOL. What a ridiculous claim. And in that very photo, you can see all the other vacuous photographers on the other side of the ring waiting for Jerry’s almighty “go ahead”. Haha. At any rate, what a great photographic capture. Ali was just 206 lb for the rematch and he looked very ripped in that photo.

 

The Census that states his age was 10 in 1930, making him 34 by the time of the first bout? Who close to liston based on what? What autopsy make that claim based on what?

Any knowledgeable fan knows Williams wasn't prime. Including the post you are responding to.

In Patterson's time the limit was 175, and another thing, Natural HWs have a tendency to compete well in the division and become champion, which Patterson did.

Fighter get away with clinching all the time, and pretty sure Frazier had that eye problem before he even won the gold.

KO%=/=Punching power, and Shavers, no matter what was always named as the hardest puncher by every fighter he faced including those that faced Foreman, and Liston. Proof for the rest?

No such thing as a lucky punch, and a past prime foreman still beat and undefeated titlist and became the oldest champ.

His skill is borne by his record, including the Foreman fight which you say he gets credit for right?

It's shocking how people keep forgetting how resumes work. Beat Decents you're good, beat good you're very good, If you put in a good performance against a good fighter and you're good, and so on. Do you mind listing the names that are only known as good for fighting Ali?

One example of Norton's quality as a contender is his fight with Holmes. He dosen't need to be a top 10 ATG to be a good win.

Who has a great resume in the division and beat Lyle and Shavers who are comperable in size to Ali (219 and 210lbs respectivley).

Shavers and Joes wern't robbed and Ali was past his prime for the rest including the 2nd norton fight which he won fair.

Patterson was neither shot nor injured for those bouts and nobody thinks Moore was prime.

Foreman won a title at 45, in the 10th round mind you, and beat Joe Frazier handily, pretty good to me.

 

As I recall, Lewis KOd him in 5 rounds. Sure, Briggs had some moments, but a few moments in a fight don't make him an ATG, do they ?

 

At the moment , Fury is most overrated .. M. Tyson the most underrated ..

 

This is an interesting break down. Many people have a warped sense when breaking down a punchers overall ability compared to a boxer. Many punchers simply do not get tested. Often it isn't their fault, sometimes they simply hit their opponents so hard they rarely see the championship rounds. Other times their management purposefully gives them weak or limited opposition to boost their confidence stringing together a long list of highlight KOs that do not really prepare them for elite matches.

In my unprofessional opinion, I think more managers and trainers should set up young punchers with durable guys and cagey defensive guys early on (McCall and Young type boxers) so that they'll be forced to adapt and box if they can't manage to just bulldoze the opponent. This will also help them learn how to pace themselves and try to win rounds. You don't have to pick out a murderers row, just every now and then match them with guys who offer intangible resistance who take them out of their comfort zone so they're not shocked when they fight a well rounded guy whose difficult to KO.

 

As to the final outcome, you recalled correctly, and….? . As to your implied recollection, I never said Briggs was an ATG or that his BADLY hurting Lewis on several occasions made Briggs an ATG, did I? . I provided evidence to counter your exaggerated dismissal of Briggs’ quality. Keep it tight.