Who is the most respected boxer ever ?

COULDHAVEBEEN · Feb 2, 2009

rekcutnevets said: ↑

....Start a thread questioning Ali's greatness, suggest someone would defeat him, or question his character. See what happens.
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....and for good reason rekcutnevets - universal respect!

flamengo · Feb 3, 2009

TBooze said: ↑

He was shown in the end to be on wrong side of the black civil rights movement. He felt the need to support Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad; and belittle other black fighters without his view.

Ali did great things, and his passion help define a war, but also may of held back the civil rights movement, by putting doubt in certain people's mind, who would of been natural King supporters.

That shaggy dog of history will define him in due course, I just think without emotions history will not be that kind to Ali.

As COULDHAVEBEEN said, I was not there in the 60s and as such have to look into the subject using books and other people's opinions to draw to my conclusion.....

And if a simpleton like me figures that out, and struggles to respect the politics of Ali, then history is unlikely to do him many favours, when better minds look back a century down the road.
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Tbooze, lets agree to disagree mate... I wont be around in 100 years to argue your point.

All the best, cheers mate. :good

red cobra · Feb 3, 2009

Vanboxingfan said: ↑

This bio of Louis I think should put this to rest. President Regan even waived the burial requirements for Arlington National Cemetery to allow Joe Louis to be buried there.

How do you top that?

=================================================================

April 13, 1981
OBITUARY
Joe Louis, 66, Heavyweight King Who Reigned 12 Years, Is Dead
Joe Louis, who held the heavyweight boxing championship of the world for almost 12 years and the affection of the American public for most of his adult life, died yesterday of cardiac arrest in Las Vegas, Nevada. He was 66 years old.

Mr. Louis, who was champion from 1937 until 1949, collapsed in the bathroom of his home at approximately 9:30 A.M. (P.S.T.). Efforts by Noel Larimer, his personal therapist, and by paramedics to revive Mr. Louis were unsuccessful. He was pronounced dead at Desert Springs Hospital at 10:05 A.M. His wife, Martha, was with him at the hospital.

Defended Title 25 Times

Schmeling Blitzed

The most spectacular victim of Louis's robust punches was Max Schmeling, the German fighter who was personally hailed by Adolf Hitler as a paragon of Teutonic manhood. Schmeling, who had knocked out Louis in 12 rounds in 1936, was given a return bout on June 22, 1938, in Yankee Stadium. He was knocked out in 2 minutes 4 seconds of the first round.

Describing the bout in The New York Times, John Kieran wrote: ''Well, of all things! It's on and it's over. Just as Joe promised. He stepped in and started a lightning attack. Lefts and rights - Bang! Bang! Bang! Schmeling reeled into the ropes on the first-base side of the ring and clung like a shipwrecked soldier to a lifeline.

''Swaying on the ropes, Max peered out in a bewildered manner. He pushed himself off and Louis struck like dark lightning again. A ripping left and a smashing right. The right was the crusher. Schmeling went down. He was up again and then, under another fusillade, down again. Once more, and barely able to stand, and then down for the third and final time.''

Not all of Louis's fights were so savage. Many of his adversaries entered the ring already quaking and his task of finishing them off was thus a matter of a half dozen solid punches at the proper moment.

A Considerate Man

There was no Joe Louis behind any facade. He was the same slowspoken, considerate person in a close social group as he was to the vast crowds that surged in on him to clutch his every word when he was at the apogee of the boxing world.

A simple dignity was characteristic of Louis, who never pretended that his sharecropper origins in Alabama were more than humble. Louis was born Joseph Louis Barrow on May 13, 1914, in the cottonfield country near Lafayette, Alabama, the eighth child of Munn and Lilly Barrow. His boyhood was one of want and little schooling.

On June 19, 1936, Louis had his first meeting with Schmeling in New York and suffered his first professional defeat, a 12th-round knockout.

Schmeling told reporters before the bout that he had seen faults in Louis's style. After the bout, Schmeling disclosed that Louis had a habit of lowering his left shoulder and arm, leaving his chin open for a right-hand counter punch.

Floored in Fourth Round

Schmeling floored Louis with that weapon in the fourth round, and finally knocked him out with more of the right-hand blows in the 12th.

Schmeling was promised a title bout against Braddock after he stopped Louis, but Mr. Jacobs wanted Louis to get the chance. After stalling Schmeling, Braddock agreed to meet Louis.

They fought in Chicago and Louis knocked out Braddock in the eighth round to win the heavyweight title. In 1938 the new champion had only three bouts, but one of those was his second against Schmeling. Germany was then expounding its superman propaganda to the world, and Hitler had made it known that Schmeling was one of those supermen.

Schmeling made the mistake of believing Hitler and made some disparaging remarks about Americans in general and blacks in particular.

Champion in a Rage

When Louis and the challenger met on June 22, 1938, in New York, the champion was in a rage. Louis cut his opponent down with terrific head and body punches. Schmeling went to a local hospital to recuperate before he returned to Germany.

The 2-minute-4-second time span was a record for turning back a challenger in a heavyweight title bout. The bout was the first million-dollar gate Louis attracted during his career.

After that Louis had things pretty much his own way in the ring. Tony Galento had him on the canvas briefly in 1939, Arturo Godoy's crouching nose-to-the-floor tactics puzzled Louis the full 15 rounds in 1940, and Buddy Baer, brother of Max, knocked Louis out of the ring for a nine-count in 1941 before losing.

That last event came during Louis's so-called ''bum-of-the-month campaign.'' During it, beginning in December 1940, he met challengers at the rate of one a month, a performance that no other heavyweight champion ever attempted.

Traveled Widely in Army

As a soldier, Louis traveled more than 21,000 miles and staged 96 boxing exhibitions before two million soldiers. Louis came out of the Army on Oct. 1, 1945, and shortly after signed to defend his title against Conn. The bout was the second million-dollar gate Louis drew and earned him the largest purse of his career, $625,916.44. The champion stopped Conn in the eighth round at Yankee Stadium on June 19, 1946.

Although he made a lot of money, it passed through his fingers quickly - and without the sort of accounting that the Internal Revenue Service expects. As a result, the Government calculated that his delinquent taxes - after penalties and interest - amounted to $1.25 million, a sum that Louis found staggering. ''I liked the good life,'' Louis said. ''I just don't know where the money went. I wish I did. I got 50 percent of each purse and all kinds of expenses came out of my cut.'' In the mid-1960's, an accommodation was reached with the Government and the boxer was able to pay off his obligations.

In 1965, Dana Latham, the commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service, informed Congress: ''We have gotten all we could possibly get from Mr. Louis, leaving him with some hope that he can live. His earning days are over.''

Louis was not officially forgiven by the tax collectors, but attempts at getting the money he owed ceased, according to a close friend of the boxer.

Joe Louis was more than just a boxing champion. He also had a role in the social history of the United States. In a 1970 article about Louis in Ebony magazine, Chester Higgins wrote: ''He gave inspiration to downtrodden and despised people. When Joe Louis fought, blacks in ghettos across the land were indoors glued to their radios, and when Louis won, as he nearly always did, they hit the streets whooping and hollering in celebration. For Joe's victory was their victory, a means of striking back at an oppressive and hateful environment. Louis was the black Atlas on whose broad shoulders blacks were lifted, for in those days, there were few authentic black heroes.''

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Born in Lexington, Alabama, May 13, 1914, he was the World Heavyweight Champion of the world from 1937 to 1949. He served with the Army in World War II, mostly performing in boxing matches at military installations around the world in a morale-improving program. After losing his boxing title, he served as a greeter at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas.
He did not technically qualify for burial in Arlington National Cemtery, but President Ronald Reagan waived the requirements and he was buried in Section 7-A, near the Tomb of the Unknowns, following his death on April 12, 1981.

Martha Jefferson Louis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statement By President Ronald Reagan on the Death of Former World Heavyweight Boxing Champion Joe Louis April 13, 1981
I was privileged and will always be grateful to have had Joe Louis as my friend.

The son of an Alabama sharecropper, Joe Louis fought his way to the top of professional boxing and into the hearts of millions of Americans. Out of the ring, he was a considerate and soft-spoken man; inside the ring, his courage, strength, and consummate skill wrote a unique and unforgettable chapter in sports history.

But Joe Louis was more than a sports legend -- his career was an indictment of racial bigotry and a source of pride and inspiration to millions of white and black people around the world.

All of America mourns his loss, and we convey our sympathy to his family and friends. But we also share their pride in his professional achievements, his service to his country, and his strength of heart and spirit.

Note: On April 16 the White House announced that at the request of Mrs. Louis, the President waived the burial requirements for Arlington National Cemetery to allow Joe Louis to be buried there.
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Absolutely, it's Joe Louis who was and is the most respected boxer ever, and if anyone doe not have that view, they are historically ignorant, and don't have that "big screen view of the perspective of history".

rodney · Feb 3, 2009

Ali ----- The Most Respected ---- in and out of the ring.
We will most likely never see another like him who has done so much.

red cobra · Feb 4, 2009

Floyd Patterson was also a man was worthy of the highest respect, IMO.

round15 · Feb 4, 2009

The most praise I've heard for any fighter consistently is Floyd Patterson.

Senior ladies I've spoken to who've had the pleasure of meeting him have told me he's one of the nicest and well mannered of all the fighters. Joe Louis also gets mentioned as well.

red cobra · Feb 4, 2009

round15 said: ↑

The most praise I've heard for any fighter consistently is Floyd Patterson.

Senior ladies I've spoken to who've had the pleasure of meeting him have told me he's one of the nicest and well mannered of all the fighters. Joe Louis also gets mentioned as well.
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Precisely what drives my determination of "respectability". These two men, Louis and Patterson were gentlemen who never disgraced themselves either in the ring or out of it. Patterson had a decency and dignity (as did Louis) that transcended the mere sport of boxing, and was a representative of the type of sportsman that not only youth, but all people could look up to, unlike most of the crud "sportsmen" we have today.

red cobra · Feb 4, 2009

The Klitschko brothers , love 'em or hate 'em exhibit more class and dignity than is typical today. Vitali has this somewhat sinister, badass aspect, however subtle, but basically he and his brother are great ambassadors of the sport of boxing to the world, and I don't give a damn about what their haters think about them.

MagnificentMatt · Feb 4, 2009

red cobra said: ↑

The Klitschko brothers , love 'em or hate 'em exhibit more class and dignity than is typical today. Vitali has this somewhat sinister, badass aspect, however subtle, but basically he and his brother are great ambassadors of the sport of boxing to the world, and I don't give a damn about what their haters think about them.
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Nah, Wladimir is class. But Vitali can be a dick, I remember him walking up to Lennox and pushing him after the fight was called...

He would have whooped Lennox if they fought right there..haha

Jear · Feb 4, 2009

red cobra said: ↑

Precisely what drives my determination of "respectability". These two men, Louis and Patterson were gentlemen who never disgraced themselves either in the ring or out of it. Patterson had a decency and dignity (as did Louis) that transcended the mere sport of boxing, and was a representative of the type of sportsman that not only youth, but all people could look up to, unlike most of the crud "sportsmen" we have today.
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Joe Louis was a reknowned adulterer. He had numerous affairs with white woman celebrities, so i would have to disagree with you. Ali and Johnsons dalliances are often brought up as character blights against them, so why should they not count against Louis?

COULDHAVEBEEN · Feb 4, 2009

rodney said: ↑

Ali ----- The Most Respected ---- in and out of the ring.
We will most likely never see another like him who has done so much.
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There's room for others on the podium such as Louis, Patterson, Dempsey...but for mine Ali has stood on the gold medal block in the centre for decades.

leverage · Feb 4, 2009

pedro agosto

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