well..always thought it about fransesco damiani who i was a fan of...based on he never seems to get spoke about, and more casual fans (even though i dont like using that term) often have never heard of him...i think underratted is a word that fits. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Well, Holyfield and Klitschko suffered major shoulder injuries during their losses to Byrd. That tends to be "kind of a good" reason. It's not like Byrd was the one who suffered the major shoulder injuries in those fights and still managed to beat THEM. The Tua win was good.
He's been ranked among top 10 HWs of all time by a poster here. That's wildly overrating someone who's not beaten even one current top 5 fighter.
Ridiculed where? In General? Who isn't ridiculed there? Most of what I've seen here have been on point. Top notch power and size (in terms of reach and height), but not very impressive skills and, most importantly, unproven against good opposition.
Jimmy Ellis is underrated. Jimmy won the WBA tournament. He beat all the guys Frazier did (Bonnavena, chuvalo, Quarry). He stopped Leotis Martin who retired Liston and he beat the great Floyd Patterson. As a veteran jimmy also took Ron Lyle and Joe Bugner the full distance and drew with Larry Middleton. As a heavyweight only Ali, Frazier and Shavers stopped him. All that after jumping from middleweight to heavyweight without the PEDs and steroids that were undoubtedly employed in later years by champions moving through the weights. I think Jimmy deserves more respect.
I agree. Speaking of Ellis-Lyle, does anyone have that fight or know someone who does? Are there any silent film versions similar to Lyle-Shavers?
Ellis v Chuvalo is on you tube and so is Ellis v Bonavenna. Ellis decked Bonavena and he shook up Chuvalo a lot more than Frazier ever did. Ellis had some pop in that right hand!
I know. I own all of Ellis' fights that I believe are available. I just hadn't seen Ellis-Lyle. The way Ellis plants his feet and really fires his punches against Chuvalo is impressive. I think Ellis is underrated because he didn't really believe in himself. One reason Larry Holmes left Ali's camp and no longer wanted to be his sparring partner had to do with the fact that Holmes didn't want to turn out like Jimmy Ellis. There's a famous photo before a fight in the 1970s with Ali, Frazier, Patterson, Ellis and some others, and Ellis is wearing a Muhammad Ali shirt. The other guys in the photo had all been a heavyweight champ and all fought and lost to Ali, too, but they were dressed up and carried themselves like champs. Ellis didn't. He identified himself as just being part of Ali's team ... not just a team member, a regular sparring partner. A less important fighter. Men who become the heavyweight champion are supposed to believe they can beat anyone in the world. Jimmy Ellis just never seemed like a guy who believed he could.
The obvious answer is always Larry Holmes even though he's getting much more love now 37 years since his prime but in the day noone gave him his due including Cosell. He was forced to give him a bit when Larry didn't go away but just watch Larry against Mike Weaver in their first fight when he had the flu and fought with a busted ear drum against a fighter who was very easy to overlook especially since he had a huge fight with Shavers already signed and Mike had double digit losses who could kill you dead and some how pulled it out. Or the obvious Shavers II and Snipes. Even way past his prime he had to dig deep against Evander and McCall. Evander is truly underrated when comparing the greatest heavies of all time. I don't where to start with him. He just kept proving everyone wrong by beating up all those so called New era Big Heavyweights
Good call. Somewhat surprised I missed it myself. Don't think he deserved the W over Floyd but Quarry, Chuvalo and Bonavena were good wins. He was one of the craftiest HWs of his generation.
I like this. With a different corner and training, and some discipline after winning the title, Ingo may have hung around with more success afterwards. I can see a motivated Johansson beating Chuvalo, Terrell, Folley, etc. A fight with that Ingo against the Williams of Liston 1 would have been interesting.
I totally agree!! Ellis accepted the shadow of Ali a bit too much, but jimmy loved the guy too. I still can't imagine many other fighters of Jimmys stature being like that, he was older than Ali too. I think a film of that relationship should have been made. Ellis was good to watch. I loved the way he made space to lure a guy onto that whipping counter right hand. Constantly adjusting his feet without being wasteful. Jimmy was tough and smart. I think he had a bad eye too. He really achieved something incredible when you add it all up.