Who is the nicest fighter in History?

Shake · Oct 9, 2007

I disqualify both.

godking · Oct 9, 2007

fg2227 said:

Inside and outside the ring?

My vote would be maybe joe Louis
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A nice fighter is an Oxymoron.

A professional fighter is paid to HURT his opponent.

Bill1234 · Oct 9, 2007

McGrain said:

Sounds like he's sound with you and sounds like a reasonable guy, but if you mention him in this thread seriously you have to mention every fighter that there ever was that didn't **** somebody basically.

Larry ever talk to you about his fights? Or his own jab, the technical side of it?
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Yeah, he talked about his fight with Cooney a little, and he taught me the jab. He also showed how to avoid getting hit with a left hook while throwing a jab, and what to do if some one is bobbing and weaving...aim for their chest and they will walk right into your punch. He tried to teach me foot work too...didn't work. I have terrible rythm, and it shows in my foot work. Imagine Marciano walking for wards behind a slow Larry Holmes style jab coming from cheek bone level, and you got my style.

RafaelGonzal · Oct 9, 2007

Arguello and Patterson

Sizzle · Oct 9, 2007

janitor said:

Sizzle said:

There is a big diference between defending yoursef against a racist MP with a batton and beating up some bell boy for mishandeling your suitcase, or beating up your manager in a dispute over money, or beating up an auto mechanic because you dont like the price he charges.

I am aware of this incident and it dose not reflect on him with any credit.

It is important to put it in context however. Did miss Turner sustain any injuries to justify the asertion that she was nearly choked to death.

It is legitimate to ask because Jack Johnsons wife spent a week in hospital after sombody beat her up.

Yes Johnson was brave.

That is about the only positive thing you can say about what he did. Beyond that he was totaly self serving.

He was about as far from being a man of principle as you can get.

His only principle was

"If you get betweenme and what I want you are going down black or white"

Some sources white owned papers were quite sympathetic towards Johnson before he won the title. Less so afterwards.

No he should have tried to minimise any backlash by treating his oponents respectfully in the ring and conducting himself corectly in public.

Not at all.

Louis actively tried to make oportunities for black contenders even fighting them against the wishes of his managment at times. Johnson did not give a damn about them and was concequently hated by them.

Mate if there had been a race war it would have been a verry short and one sided war and the winner would have been a bit of a no brainer.

Race war.

What you did have was a civil rights strugle that would not be resolved by men like Johnson or Ali but by diplomats like Louis. That is not conformist it is just pragmatic.

Perhaps you think Louis would have been doing something positive if he had humiliated his oponents or joined a racist religeous group.

That is a damn site more than Johnson ever did by the way.

No it is not the only thing he contributed.

He lobied congress after the race riots in the 60s asking them to adress the concearns of black people while Muhamad Ali was in the NOI.

You seem to have quite a niaeve view about what pressure means in this context.
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1. I'm beginning to forget what the original argument was here? If you're trying to argue Joe Louis was nicer than Jack Johnson I would agree with you, I'm not disputing that, but Joe Louis is no saint. And I have a much greater respect for Johnsons attitude outside the ring than Louis'

2. "I got chills because I realise I could've committed murder. I never got such a feeling" - Joe Louis
It was fortunate Lena's Aunt immediately burst into the hotel room otherwise Joe Louis, by his own admission, could be being remembered as a murderer.

3.Principle: 1.an accepted or professed rule of action or conduct
It seems to me Johnson was pretty consistent, honest and determined with his approach to life, whether you considered them moral or not.

4. No he shouldn't have conformed to racist ideals and not celebrated defeating white opponents. WHy don't you go one step further and say he was black, therefore he had no right to fight for the title at all, and by doing so endangered his race and thus should NEVER have pursued the heavyweight title? There were mass race riots all throughout America just because he defeated Burns. This wasn't his fault. Society was to blame. He was just a black man with ambition, which wasn't to be accepted.

5. You know what I mean by "race war". Civil rights issue. Black people striving for equality.

6. Maybe humiliating opponents and becoming a muslim wasn't Joe Louis. But I tell you what, what we saw in the ring wasn't Joe Louis either. It was a man behaving the way Jack Blackburn recommended (perhaps insisted) he behave to appease the white people.

7. Wow, he asked congress to address the concerns of black people? And you have to wonder how he managed to avoid being assassinated with such courageous behaviour.
Excerpt from Patrick Myler, a true ball licker of Joe Louis;
"Louis had never been a vocal opponent of racism. He did make a minor stand against segregation in the army during the war, but he was always wary of offending whites. He obeyed their commandments (his trainers) to the letter."

8. Erm, I agree with you and you call me naive? You just love to argue don't you?
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Sizzle · Oct 9, 2007

ChrisPontius said:

Janitor KO1 Sizzle
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I'm not surprised the average boxing fan can't stand to have anything negative said about Joe Louis, who was incredible in the ring, but less so out of it.

brooklyn1550 · Oct 9, 2007

Milton McCrory

ChrisPontius · Oct 10, 2007

Sizzle said:

I'm not surprised the average boxing fan can't stand to have anything negative said about Joe Louis, who was incredible in the ring, but less so out of it.
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Yawn.

janitor · Oct 10, 2007

Sizzle said:

1. I'm beginning to forget what the original argument was here? If you're trying to argue Joe Louis was nicer than Jack Johnson I would agree with you, I'm not disputing that, but Joe Louis is no saint. And I have a much greater respect for Johnsons attitude outside the ring than Louis'

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No

I am arguing that Louis achieved far more for black athletes outside the ring. I am not arguing that he was a saint. Just the athlete that did the most to desegregated sports in America.

To argue that Johnsons atitude outside the ring was better is frankly preposterous.

3.Principle: 1.an accepted or professed rule of action or conduct
It seems to me Johnson was pretty consistent, honest and determined with his approach to life, whether you considered them moral or not.

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You could argue that Jack the ripper was consistent in his aproach to life but it dose not make him right. Johnson was certainly consistent to the extent that he looked out for Jack Johnson above all else.

Bottom line is that Johnson only cared about predudice when it was aplied to him. He was quite happy to referre battle royales where hungry black men fought each other for a handfull of loose change. He was quite happy to draw the colour bar when it suited him.

4. No he shouldn't have conformed to racist ideals and not celebrated defeating white opponents.
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What is wrong with showing respect to a defeated oponent?

It is not like he danced the jig whenever he knocked out a black oponent.

WHy don't you go one step further and say he was black, therefore he had no right to fight for the title at all, and by doing so endangered his race and thus should NEVER have pursued the heavyweight title? There were mass race riots all throughout America just because he defeated Burns. This wasn't his fault. Society was to blame. He was just a black man with ambition, which wasn't to be accepted.

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At the verry least he should have tried to minimise the backlash rather than agrevate it. If a man with a gun is holding a bank full of people hostage then of course he is to blame if he shoots them but it dose not mean that you are behaving responsibly by trying to agrevate him.

5. You know what I mean by "race war". Civil rights issue. Black people striving for equality.

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But that is exactly where you are going wrong here.

You want a "race war" which is unwinable because it is intrinsicaly more satisfying to you. To get results in anything you have to be pragmatic and it dose not always involve doing what feels satisfying to you personaly.

6. Maybe humiliating opponents and becoming a muslim wasn't Joe Louis. But I tell you what, what we saw in the ring wasn't Joe Louis either. It was a man behaving the way Jack Blackburn recommended (perhaps insisted) he behave to appease the white people.

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If Louis had behaved like Jack Johnson he might never have been champion and the colour bar might have remained in place untill the 60s. That was the reality that he was dealing with.

I am curious to know how you think he might have got a better result by doing things diferently?

7. Wow, he asked congress to address the concerns of black people? And you have to wonder how he managed to avoid being assassinated with such courageous behaviour.

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That is a damn sight more than Jack Johnson ever did incidentaly.

Excerpt from Patrick Myler, a true ball licker of Joe Louis;
"Louis had never been a vocal opponent of racism. He did make a minor stand against segregation in the army during the war, but he was always wary of offending whites. He obeyed their commandments (his trainers) to the letter."

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I dont agree with this asesment at all. Louis was involved quite extensivley in the civil rights movment in the 60s and regularly apeared at demonstrations. What emerges from Louis's writings and private correspendence is that he believed in a gradualist aproach to civil rights. Demonstrations not riots. The athletes who boycoted the olympics could have made more progress by being seen to win.

Whether you agree with his thesis or not he got results.

8. Erm, I agree with you and you call me naive? You just love to argue don't you?

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Mate you are still arily talking about Schmeling making a bit of a stand and not sucumbing to pressure. You need to research the history of the third reich a little methinks.

The Jack Johnsons of Natzi Germany were liquidated in the first few months leaving cooler heads to carry on the strugle behind closed doors. You would do well to take note of this.
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Rattler · Oct 10, 2007

Micky Ward

RockyJim · Oct 11, 2007

I met Marciano at The Brockton fair as a kid......very nice!
Met Jack Dempsey at his place in NYC.....very friendly!!
Met Marvin Hagler...nice guy......

Luigi1985 · Oct 11, 2007

RockyJim said:

I met Marciano at The Brockton fair as a kid......very nice!
Met Jack Dempsey at his place in NYC.....very friendly!!
Met Marvin Hagler...nice guy......
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May I ask you how old you´re?

young griffo · Oct 12, 2007

I've just been watching "The Contender" and Sam Soliman would have to be one of the most genuinely nice people that's ever graced boxing.

Not a great fighter but an ATG champion person.

AnthonyJ74 · Oct 13, 2007

janitor said:

He was not afraid of being rejected socialy he was afraid of the wider concequences for others. It is people like Jack Johnson who do not face up to the concequences of their actions for others and the responsibilities they carry who are the real cowards.

Remember that it was Louis who broke the colour bar down not Johnson or Ali or any of the fire brand types.

He literaly put his life on the line to help Jews escape from Germany. If his activities had been detected he would verry likley have ended up in a concentration camp. As it was he was drafted despite being over the age limit for the draft.

Just what exactly would you have expected him to do?
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Wasn't Joe Louis known for smacking around women throughout his life?
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janitor · Oct 13, 2007

AnthonyJ74 said:

janitor said:

Wasn't Joe Louis known for smacking around women throughout his life?
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Not really.

He bloted his copy book rather with the Lana Turner incident but that was more a crime of pasion than a conventional case of domestic abuse.

Kind of like when sombody snaps and throws a carving knife at their spouse.
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