Who is the top 5 Super Flyweight (115 lbs) in history ?

Bssed only on record at Super Fly:

1. Gilberto Roman
2. Jiro Watanabe
3. Khaosai Galaxy
4. Sung Kil-Moon
5. Masamori Tokuyama
6. Vic Darchinyan
7. Cristian Mijares
8. Johnny Tapia
9. Marc Johnson
10. Fernando Montiel

Edit: excludes fighters who have been active at Super Fly in last few years.

 

My Top-15 from 2000 onwards:
1. Srisaket Sor Rungvisai
2. Roman Gonzalez
3. Juan Francisco Estrada
4. Masamori Tokuyama
5. Vic Darchinyan
6. Kazuto Ioka
7. Gerry Penalosa
8. Cristian Mijares
9. Alexander Munoz
10. Kohei Kono
11. Martin Castillo
12. Fernando Montiel
13. Nobuo Nashiro
14. Carlos Cuadras
15. Fernando Daniel Martinez

 

I should have specified that my list excludes fighters who have been active at Super Fly in last few years. I've now done so via an edit.

 

It's probably a safer approach. I often change my perspective on some wins and careers after couple years - so my list is subject to change also.

By the way, no love for Penalosa?

 

It makes sense to me to allow a few years after a fighter retires (or permanently leaves a division, in the case of divisional rankings) before ranking them all time. What their key opponents go onto do in the next few years may impact how I rate them.

At super fly, allowing for slightly over the weight non title contests, Gerry Penalosa went 25-4-2. He went 3-4-1 in world title fights. His win over Kawashima in the latters home country is impressive and he may have been unlucky with close decisions in all 4 of his losses at the weight, but respecting the decisions of the judges, his record at the weight doesn't compare favourably with my top 10.

 

Yes, that's true.
For me, it's a good reason NOT to respect the decision of the judges, particularly on those fights in South Korea. It's enough that They took Penalosa's title away from him, I won't let them take away his legacy also. If I took those decision at "face value" - I would probably need to put In Joo Cho in there since beating Gerry twice is very impressive, but everyone who saw him fight knows it would be a bit ridiculous since He clearly was not that good.
Saying that, I understand Your approach and the subjectivity issues that "overruling" decisions for the sake of rankings bring.

 

In-Joo Choo was 8-2 at the weight, including 6-2 in world title fights. In addition to the 2 x SD's over Penalosa, he also beat Juan Zarate who was ranked #10 by the Ring in the annual rankings after the fight and former WBA light Fly titelest Keiji Yamaguchi.

Compare that, and Gerry's, records at the weight, to my #10 Fernando Montiel, who was 21-1 at the weight, including 10-1 in world title fights, who beat former WBA champion and Ring #1 Martin Castillo, reigning WBO titles and Ring #4 Ivan Hernandez, reigning titlest Pedro Alcazar and Z Gorres who was ranked #8 later on. His sole loss at the weight was by MD to the brilliant Mark Johnson.

 

I don't really want to make an argument for Cho - but if We'd take not Montiel, but someone like Darchinyan from Your list, who had a relatively short (while sweet) run at the weight - and was 5-0 in title fights, then Cho's numerical record is pretty comparable. I'd also argue that Penalosa was clearly superior fighter to Mijares or Arce, so his wins can also compare favorably, on paper.
However You look at it - Cho definitely gets elevated beyond his actual level with those two wins on his record which I think most people agree should not be there.

 

Even respecting the judges official decisions, I'm comfortable with Darchinyan ahead of Cho, based solely on fights at Super Fly:

Records - Darchinyan = 14-0-1; Cho 8-2

World title records - Darchinyan 5-0; Cho = 6-2

Key wins - Darchinyan = Mijares, Arce, Kirilov and Rojas; Cho = Penalosa x 2 SDs, Zarate and Yamaguchi

Losses - Darchinyan = 0; Cho = x 2 vs Tokuyama aged 31 and 32.

The win/loss stats obviously favour Darchinyan, no defeats favour Darchinyan in this comparison and when you factor in not just key opponents beaten, but how they were beaten (dominant stoppage victories over Arce and Mijares > debatable SDs over Penalosa, imo), the quality of win resume favours Darchinyan too, again, imo.

I appreciate you weren't actually arguing Cho ahead of Darchinyan, but rather just playing devil's advocate based on my "if we respect the decisions of the judges" comment, but even on that basis, I not only have Darchinyan ahead of Cho at Super Fly, I have him way ahead, for these reasons.

All time Divisional rankings, at least the basis on which I compile them, can throw up some odd results, in the sense I rank based solely on the record in the stipulated weight division. E.g. I have Jackie Fields ahead of Mickey Walker and Duran at WW, because I think he has a deeper win resume at that weight, whereas I know on the whole both were better than Fields and are way ahead of Fields in my p4p rankings, which are based on their respective career fights in all weight divisions.

 

1.Khaosai Galaxy
2.Gilberto Roman
3.Johnny Tapia
4.Sung Kil Moon
5.Vic Darchinyan