Who is/was the greatest Gracie?

Renzo Gracie for me. In MMA hes defeated 5 former UFC Champions in Frank Shamrock, Carlos Newton, Pat Miletich, Oleg Taktarov and Maurice Smith. In the Grappling World Renzo won Abu Dhabi in 1998 and 2000 beating guys like Fabiano Iha, Frank Trigg, Jean Jacques Machado and Dennis Hallman. As a coach hes as good as they get IMO. Renzo coached guys like Ricardo Almeida and Matt Serra to their Blackbelts, he gave Roy Nelson his Blackbelt, has worked alot with current Champions like GSP and Frank Edgar.

 

Hard to argue with this. :good

 

Renzo. Dude looks like john turturro but with skills. He could actually fight.

 

Right now Roger.

I have always preferred the Carlson side of the family historically.

 

easily Cesar Gracie

 

Helio.

The others are different dawns from the same sun.

 

Not really Helio was one of a group of brothers who all taught, just as Carlos was.

Helio was not the godfather that his side of the family made him out to be, Carlos had his own ideas and produced a different style of fighter.

 

If my BJJ recollection is correct, Helio was the brother that solely interacted with Kimura and from his experiences changed the focus to ne-waza as opposed to other schools focusing on the Kano style of throwing.

The basic difference between JJ and BJJ sources from this match and flows from Helio.

Carlos close second for me.:thumbsup

 

Obviously let me preface by saying I respect both hugely and don't mean to step on toes.

Actually Carlos was the first to train with Maeda, who was the teacher, Kimura was a fighter from Japan who beat Helio.

Helio certainly adopted what Maeda and his brothers taught him to suit his smaller frame, and it shows in the style differences in the two sides of the family (although it is much less apparent now).

What Maeda was teaching was already very different than JJJ, closer to Judo and Catch wrestling really; Carlos stuck more with that style as it fit him better, and it shows in the type of fighters he produced (top game guys with focus on takedowns and control) whereas Helio produced more bottom game guys who focused more on defense and a slower methodical game.

 

Thanks for that Beebs. What I have never figured was why Helio changed after one loss? Was it that impressionable?

BTW I train occassionaly with a Machado brown.

 

Thank Wikipedia, I am just it's servant.

I don't follow by what you mean about Helio changing after one loss?

He basically stayed the same fighter, just a lot more famous because he put up such a hell of a fight against, objectively, a better fighter, and impressed with his heart and technique.

Maybe I am misunderstanding.

 

Bad wording - meant why he did not change to more of Kimura's throw game / scarf hold.

 

It's way too early to say one way or the other on the young one, Ralek, that recently beat a shot Sakuraba to break the family curse - but perhaps to be fair we should hold off on this question until he's had a chance to prove himself (or fail to).

Of course, Brazilians spawn like rabbits so we could wind up waiting centuries for them to stop producing generation after generation of jiu-jitsu prodigies. :yep