Good day all, It seems every day that there is a new thread in which there is rending of clothes and gnashing of teeth because Marciano did not fight Nino Valdez. I think that was a great shame for Nino, as he earned the shot, but to me, he had no realistic chance whatsoever, as he was a guy beaten 18 times, stopped five, sometimes by bums, sometimes by LHW or Middleweights. He was simply not on the same level as the only undefeated heavyweight champ in history. Bob Baker and Bob Satterfield are also sometimes mentioned as fights that the fans would haved liked to have seen--well, today's fans. These guys never earned shots (although both did, ironically, defeat the streaky and inconsistent Valdez). Other names pop up occasionally: Tommy Jackson, Harold Johnson...mostly tall punchers though. Feel free to add some names. Really, Marciano only defended against #1 and #2 contenders, so Valdez is THE big name. Curiously, it is rarely mentioned that Joe Louis, a true fistic god, did not defend against the black fighters between John Henry Lewis in 37 and Joe Walcott in 49. The reason often given is that he could not make any money off them, and I get that. Also, there was the war going on. Still, I think we all agree that it is a shame that guys like Lee Q. Murray, Elmer Ray, Turkey Thompson, Jimmy Bivins, and Lem Franklin couldn't get shots. Early on, he might even have fought Larry Gaines. Taking the money as an excuse also absolves guys like Jack Dempsey, who famously tried to make the Wills fight, but could not get the backing. To me clear, Louis and Marciano are my number 2 and 3 heavyweights, respectively, in terms of accomplishment. I do not argue that either would defeat Lennox Lewis, or another great 250 heavy, but what they accomplished in their days was incredible...the 25 defenses and the "0." But let's talk. Who really did leave more on the table?
Joe was around a lonnnng time can’t imagine him giving anything else. The Valdes argument is petty to me. It’s not as if Valdes was George foreman or Sonny Liston. Some just like to take the man down a few notches. I def believe Rocky had one or two more decent fights in him but he knew he was slowing down after the Cockell fight. Losing would have been inevitable (like any aging fighter). Wish he would have stayed fighting for two more years so we could have seen him fight Patterson but oh well.
Good answers, but we are not talking about Louis hanging around longer or having more defenses. We are talking about guys who deserved defenses 37-49 and did not get them because it was decided that Louis could not make money off of black fighters.
Rocky but i dont blame him. He was having serious back problems and absolutely hated his manager Al Weil. I can understand not wanting someone youre beefing with making money off of u in anyway. He didnt go into details in his biography or interviews but it seems Al weil had some scumbag tendencies and rocky was very, very tight with his money and didnt like spending or losing it. I guess a good example would be alexander the great. Him and rocky achieved so much and then died relatively young before we could really see them challenged like other greats were. If rockys health was better it would have been AMAZING seeing him fight a young patterson or ingo for one last hurrah. With Louis, he was he had some scary moments like the first walcott fight or his brawl with buddy baer that left us satisfied knowing he could lose. People were actually nervous during some moments of his career whereas with rocky, he started off with lots of doubys due to his size and lack of athleticism. But over time he was often the favorite and it was obvious hed knock the guy out. He became an unstoppable force and rarely had to struggle and never lost. It didnt help his era lacked young elte fighters (the top 4 after rocky were all in their mid-late 30's and had been in many wars) and he retired very early. To me its obvious rocky left a lot more questions than answers.
Marciano started at 24 and had a 68" reach, and yet somehow attained the title of only heavyweight champ to go undefeated. He had to've had a enormous will to win and work ethic. Louis's title defenses are impressive, but in my opinion Marciano accomplished more About who left more, Louis was forced back into fighting. Had Louis not retire, he would've had more in him, so if you dont count the IRS Louis, then I'd say Marciano. Marciano had back issues, his daughter barely knew him, his manager was a dirtbag stealing from him, and his wife had a miscarriage that he didn't even know about. You can argue that due to his age he had more, but i really dont think so.
There is a YouTube video out there when Rocky went on the Groucho Marx show You Bet Your Life. Groucho asked him why he stopped boxing and one of the responses was that his manager was taking 50% of his pay. Groucho was shocked and of course made some funny remarks. 9 minutes in... This content is protected
Marciano had a few good fights left in him but there was really no one around that even seemed like they had a chance or could draw major interest. Valdez lost 2X to Moore who got the shot and then lost badly in 1955 to Bob Satterfield taking a 9 count in the 10th, Satterfield was already KO'd by Ezzard Charles in 2 rds and KO'd by Archie Moore so with Rocky already looking to get away from 50 % Al Weil and no big money fights on the horizon. Sonny Liston had only 8 fights an Floyd was staying in the lightheavyweights and lost to Joey Maxim Louis would have been better retiring after the 2nd Walcott fight, he only had one loss that he avenged Schmeling and would have avoided the Charles and Marciano fights
Awesome post. I'd completely forgotten about the contempt between Marciano and Weil. Didn't Weil also scam Lou Ambers out of a big chunk of his earnings? It sort of reminds me of Stan Polley, the manager who ripped of the guys from Badfinger.
