Who performs better against Liston - Sharkey or Schmeling?

Being mindful of Listons track record of “boxers” Machen still unable to carry Sharkey and Schemlings gym bag IMO had a broken /injured right hand and it becomes obvious when you watch the bout and see it disappear from use.

 

It took two forum deities to stop Sharkey Dempsey and “Da Preem” Liston is closing in on Holy Spirit status but he’s not there yet.

 

Machen wasn't even trying to win by his own admission. Merely trying to survive. Liston rendered him ineffective, and outboxed him. Beat him at his own game. Very bizarre you're critisizing him for it.

Not sure what Louis has to do with this discussion at all.

Who said he hadn't reached his prime by the Machen fights? He was basically starting from scratch upon his return in '58, and Whitehurst was his first bout back, by the second bout, he hadn't quite reached his prime but he'd shaken off some of the rust. Both of these fights are fair game. However, you haven't showed any actual weaknesses displayed by Liston in any of these fights, that would lead you to think he'd be capable of being outboxed. Your only criticism is he went the distance in these fights. While that may have been the case, he still won all but three rounds across three fights.

Not sure what you mean by this.

Liston's arm issues were well documented before the fight. Liston had attempted to get a postponement from the Miami boxing comission and was denied. Witnesses saw him icing his arms after training and using ultrasound therapy.

He also inexplicably stopped training weeks before the fight which made Dundee suspect he was injured.
"” Angelo Dundee, challenger Clay’s trainer, expressed amazement. He stated: “As long as I've been in boxing, I never heard of any man quitting his sparring a week before an important fight unless he was very stale or hurt in some way.”

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-irving-daily-news-texan/155160875/

The only source of Chuvalo having Ali peeing blood is...... Chuvalo. The same guy who insists he actually should've won the rematch and insists if the ref didn't stop him from getting pummeled, he would've won the fight.

This is factually untrue. Both fights are recorded as 7th round stoppages. Folley lasted a minute longer but did 2 rounds worse on the cards.

I never stated Schmeling was useless aside from the flaw he exploited in Louis. You were implying that Schmeling could very well do the same thing to Liston as he did to Louis on the sole basis that Liston was slower and had "a worse tendency to deliver against top opposition.

Schmeling didn't lose because he "**** the bed". He fought his usual gameplan. Just lost to the superior man. It's almost like the gameplan he used on (an undertrained complacent) Louis wasn't some one size fits all glove.

 

lol I like the guy but he's simply not objective when it comes to Louis and that era. I Try to avoid his posts in such topics. Otherwise, he's a great poster imo

 

He's a good fella, just gets a bit cross eyed over Joe.