Who Ranks Greb As The Greatest?

Was the loss to Hall really a dive though?

I have Fitz just outside the top 10 as of today :good

 

Sorry, but i was just amazed one more time. In 1881, Fitzsimmons met Herbert Slade, who was a World Heavyweight title contender and protege of Jem Mace. There is apparently some argument as to whether it was Slade or his brother (sounds like PR overdrive by Slade to me) but Fitz maintained that he fought and beat Slade. Fitzimmons knocked him out in 2 rounds. Amazing enough as it is, but this fight was his second fight for the day! And it was just one day before he entered and won the New Zealand middleweight tournament (3KOs for the day!). And if that is not enough for you, the fight took place on 13 September just 2 months after Fitz won the New Zealand lightweight championship so it seems almost certain that Fitz did all this as a Lightweight!

 

Adam Pollock belives it was Slades brother.

 

There is an article around the internet which deals with the Hall loss and it makes a pretty solid case that the fight was a dive. To be honest, it is far more believable than Dempsey Flynn. Either way, i dont see how it matters.

Either way, it makes little difference. Welterweight Ray wasnt undefeated, either was Greb, Armstrong or anyone else who fought as often as Fitz (possible exception of John L Sullivan in his early days). The win was avenged easily. I doubt Hall, or Dooley for that matter were ever in Fitz' class as fighters.


Outside of the top 10? I cant see the argument myself. But saying that there are so many great fighters and have been so many great fighters. I guessing the likes of Ezzard Charles, Roberto Duran, Benny Leonard, Willie Pep or Maybe a couple of one division guys like Monzon or ali might be on their?

 

Great article :good

 

It is certainly possible. (i havent read adams book yet and he definitely knows more than me), but if it was, then it is would seem that the Slade brothers werent as close as the Klits and there was no brotherly revenge Sought!

Fitzsimmons always maintained that he fought Slade and there were dozens of unrecorded fights. Realistically, i think it extremely unlikely that Fitz would be confused between the two. If it was his brother on that night, then i think it almost certain that there was a behind closed doors private meeting between the two (Very common in those days). Incidentally, what is known of Slade's brother? Did he have other fights? Was he also a heavyweight?

And most importantly, if it was Slade and not his brother, how would this win sit with you and would it help catapult Fitzy towards your top 10?

 

I think Bob Fitzsimmons and Sam Langford are certainly worthy of consideration in the contest for best fighter pound-for-pound of all-time.

Fitzsimmons probably gets overlooked the most of all, but to be fair many people do clarify that their lists dont include fighters of pre-1910 or pre-1920 etc.

 

I don't know enough about Slade You know more than me in that respect, I suggest you seek out Adams book, its terrific.

 

Indeed :deal

 

did u people know greb was blind in one eye! 300 fights in and he tragically died, his record could have reached 400! the mans unreal!

 

Well he pretty much said he was done with boxing after having a glass eye fitted, then died a month or so later from another operation....but who's to say he wouldn't have carried on for a little longer..

I believe his work was done though, there wasn't really anything more to achieve and his skills were already diminishing towards the end of his career.

 

To shed more light on Tunney/Greb...In 1922, my father,a young cabbie,and friends .who worked the Greenwich Village area,saw the local favorite Gene Tunney fight a 15 pound lighter Harry Greb...He would tell me so many times,when I was a youth, that he NEVER saw a main event fighter,take such a beating that Greb inflicted on a prime 25 year old,stronger Tunney...So much Blood shed by Tunney...My fatherwas an avid boxing fan,and was'nt into hyperbole...160lb greb fought the great 175 pound Tunney four more times,with the popular consensus,splitting 2 and 2...No mean feat for a past peak 160 lb Harry Greb, against thegrowing heavier ,175 pound,alltime great Lt. Heavyweight Gene Tunney...NO,SIR...

 

Pittsburgh Post reported that Tunney fought extremely well. He made a great fight for 10 rounds, but Greb set a pace in the last five that overwhelmed his opponent. Tunney's eyebrows were cut and he bled at the nose and mouth. Greb fought his usual fight, all over his man, and chopping him up. Tunney fought Greb much better than Tommy Gibbons had done in New York.

That is from boxrec... boxrec also has a quote from Nat Fleischer saying that he saw no basis for complaint in regards to the second decision.

Is there any newspaper articles detailing the first fight?

 

Greb made the better start in the first fight. I can pull a few quotes regarding the 2nd fight if you wish RP. It seems to have been a closely fought series, but from what I can gauge Greb got the better of the series.

 

Here you go:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=2&res=9D0CEED61531EF33A25757C2A9639C946395D6CF