Who ranks higher all time at 205lb?

Liddell has definatly got the better scalp collection of legit 205ers.

 

He's a little shorter than Ricco, about the same weight, and I would say stronger. Fedor is in no way a physically weak guy. I would argue he is at least as strong as Couture, if not stronger.. The most flexible heavy around, extremely light on his feet, and the most dynamic ground fighter in MMA.. Fedor is a walking contingency.

 

Liddell has the better resumé easily. Silva's is good too, but not the same quality or quantity of quality.

Fedor vs. Couture would be awesome with the edge to Fedor IMO.

 

Silva his winning streak was amazing and he won a GP.

 

I agree with this assesment as to why Liddell should be considered at a higher rank than Wanderlai at the moment. Let's not forget that basically the Pride middleweight division and the UFC light heavyweight division started at almost the same time after the Ortiz/Wanderlai fight. Basically, Pride built their middleweights around the guy who lost to the UFC champion. As impressive as Wanderlai's win streak was - it was all under the auspices of being second best after the Tito loss. Sad, but true.

 

Tito wasn't quite the **** either. Remember his loss to Frank?

You are right though.

Seems wrestling, gnp, and the basics of cage fighting continued to evolve in the UFC. Striking and dynamic ground fighting (utilizing submissions and gnp without the advantages of a cage) continued in pride.

Rules, also seemed 100% better in pride, as far as being penalized for stalling.. Card system.. Though I do love elbows, and headstomps, and knees to the head on the ground.

 

They were more exciting because of the rules.

As for who`s greater the honours go to Liddell.His resume is STACKED in comparison.Too many names and too many notable wins.Admittedly watching Liddell isnt exciting as watching a prime Wandy with his Muay Thai strikes but resume for resume Liddell is the real deal.

 

That's a good point. At least Frank did retire from MMA for several years after his fight with Tito. Given that, Tito and Wanderlai become the next best thing that wasn't named Chuck Liddell. BUt, given the circumstances, this was competition from the two best active mma fighters in the world.

Chuck's victories over so many of the great fighters of his generation such as Randleman, Belfort, Ortiz, and Couture mark him as the best in his weight class.

I suppose Rampage has some of the same opportunitites to establish himself as the best of his era. He needs a few more wins against notable opponents to make it happen - but it should be fun to watch him try. Rampage/Couture, Rampage/Ortiz, Rampage/Silva are all makeable fights. Rampage/Griffin would be a barn burner as well. NOt that Forest Griffin is a great of his generation - but he is an exciting fighter to watch. He's the Arturo Gatti of the UFC.

I think the Pride rules made the fights better as well. You guys have all named the reasons. I always liked the ring better - mainly because it eliminated the ground-and-pound-against-the-cage tactic of the UFC - that slowed down a lot of their fights. I always thought it was a better display of technique to see the fighters free to move around the ring at all times. The warning cards were good as well. Fighters would have to fight harder to avoid losing ten percent of their purses. Rules-wise the Pride rules to allow head kicks and stomps made the fights that much more exciting. I definitely miss those head kicks and stomps. :verysad

Pride gave us some great great fights over the years. While the UFC may have had a heatlhy share of the world's best light heavyweights in the world, Pride was virtually home to the heavyweight division. I'll miss those days - but I'm glad there are new fights and match ups ahead of us.

Dana White should put on one more Pride show and then pull a Vince MacMahon by walking into the Pride ring and boasting that he bought out his competition. That would give me closure to what was once the glory of Pride.

In the words of Don King, "Viva, Pride!"

 

One thing he could have done was maintain an audience in Japan. This would accomplish a couple of things.. Maintain an asian audience, as well as a platform where he could do things that the sissy ass American rules wont allow. Like freak matches.. Who says men over 250 lbs are too big? Bull****.

Head kicks and knees on the ground are some striker weapons that would even things out in a cage environment. Make fighters think twice before they go for a shoot that has a 50/50 chance of being stuffed.. Guys like Liddel would be a total beast if he were allowed to throw knees after a busted takedown attempt.. As it is now, guys can hold onto a leg and keep a takedown alive without much risk of being ****ed the hell up for his mistake..

Make no mistake.. A stuffed takedown in a real fight usually means your at risk of getting your brain bashed by someones knee.. Its a realistic fighting element that gives UFC ground fighters another advantage over would be strikers.

Meh, starting to get me upset..

Anyhow. Silva's streak and victories over Page should mean a lot more. Victories over Sakuraba should mean something as well. That Liddel beat a bunch of grapplers, basically means he can really beat up grapplers. Doesn't mean **** about him being able to fight strikers.

 

Why is beating strikers inherently better? Most of the best 205ers in the world are grapplers, so of course a champion is going to beat alot of grapplers, they are the ones who earned their shots.

What is Sak if not a pure grappler? A 185lb one at that.

Plus name me a striker that Wanderlei beat that is better than the ones Chuck beat?

Mezger - Chuck did it better
Yuki Kondo - Really?
Henderson - Also lost to him

On Chucks resume you have
Mezger - matches Wandy
Suloev and Bustamonte - Both about the same level as Kondo
Overeem - Better striker than Henderson was in 2000 I would say.
Vitor - Beat Wand
Pele

Chuck Beat more strikers more impressively than Wand did if that is your criteria, which isn't a good criteria to begin with.

 

It's not exactly "inherently better" but I think it would be good to solidify his position if he beat good strikers. If he would've avanged Rampage I think it would've been totally different conversation. But after losing to Rampage and then to Jardine who are both strikers just makes you wonder.
As far as who is above I think Chuck Liddell takes this easily.

 

Seem to forget he has a draw against Crocop, a fight where he traded with Crocop quite a bit.. No small accomplishment there.

He also tore Rampage a new ******* twice.. Page having showed Liddel is his *****, sould mean somethng.. Rampage has quite a scalp list himself.. So a victory over Rampage should mean something.

 

Well I beat a dude in highschool wrestling who beat Mark Kerr who beat Randy in wrestling.....:good that was a total non-sequitor, but I generally agree with your post. But Randy's two latest victories were pretty improbable, so that adds to his legend. I'd be curious to see him go at Fedor, but would more like to see Fedor v. Rampage at HW....