Who ranks higher all time? Oscar or Hopkins?

All those wins are against people moving-up in weight, with the exception of Tarver, who had to lose 50lbs.

 

I`m not a fan of his but Hopkins for me. :bbb

 

Maybe even higher then that. Hop won most of his big fights while Oscar lost the marjarity of them.

 

Bhop, Oscar lost most of his big fights.

 

Depends on what you value more.

Hopkins

- One weight dominance, but did have success once he did move up
- Superb longevity

Oscar
- Weight jumped with much success, but only really established himself at WW
- Tremendous resume. Clearly better than Hopkins' is and deeper in terms of wins and quality.
- Lost more fights due to fighting everyone, and didn't have Hops longevity

I don't begrudge anyone who ranks either higher, but I think Oscar's getting a bit of the shaft here so I'm voting for him. It should be a closer call than what it's getting made out to be. Oscar lost a handful of fights, but so did Bernard.

 

Among Hagler's best wins are natural ww Hearns, natural lw Duran, natural lmw Mugabi.

Among Monzon's best wins are natural ww Griffith, small ww Napoles, natural lmw Benvenuti.

You fight the best comp available. Hopkins did that, same as Monzon and Hagler.


If you look through the physical measurements/statistics of Trinidad and Hopkins on the night they fought, there is only slight advantage to Hopkins - no more than a standard size disparity between any two fighters from the same weight class, and probably less than the size advantage enjoyed by guys who use the early weigh-ins to make weights that they are noticeably big at, guys like Pavlik at mw, Paul Williams at ww, Antonio Margarito at ww, De La Hoya at sfw and lw, etc etc.

Trinidad had KTFO a noticeably big (and possibly roided) Vargas for the lmw titles and annihilated Joppy, who spent his career between 160 and 168, in his last 2 fights before Hopkins.


Hopkins was a 6ft 1in guy who spent the vast vast majority of his career at 160lbs. Pavlik was his 4th big fight above 160, he had won 2 and lost 1.

Pavlik was a 6ft 2 1/2in guy who spent the vast majority of his career of his career at 160lbs. Hopkins was his 2nd big fight above 160, he had won his only 1 against top opposition at the same weight he fought Hopkins at.



Winky Wright fought the exact same way at 170lbs that he did at 160lbs. Anyone who knows Winky's style knows that weight was not a factor in that fight. Winky badly wanted that fight, he weighed in exactly on 170 he was not light, and he was beaten fair and square.


Antonio Tarver is 6ft 2in and has never fought lower than 175lbs in his entire career, he didn't even start at smw as a novice, he has been a fully-sized natural lhw from day one. Hopkins's world title career from 1995-2006 was spent at 160lbs. At aged 40 and coming off 2 losses, he jumped not one but two weight divisions and schooled the linear lhw champ who had comfortably UD'd Jones and Johnson in his last two. Tarver had 10 months between his last fight and the Hopkins fight, he weighed in a pound less than the limit, and he did not have to take the fight at that time, Hopkins was not a mandatory (as he had never fought at lhw at world title level), but he chose to take it at that time.


Add to this that Hopkins also beat in his career: 6ft 2in Segundo Mercado, future lhw champ and long-time lhw fighter Glen Johnson, 5ft 11in Antwun Echols who fought for a world title at 168, 6ft 2in Keith Holmes who fought for a world title at 168, 5ft 11in Howard Eastman who also took Arthur Abraham to points.


The perception that Hopkins preyed on smaller men is false. He fought the best available, many of whom were the same size and some who were bigger.

Oscar is more guilty of preying on smaller men than Hopkins is, though Oscar balances this by having fought more bigger men too, but at 6ft 1in and a mw who can easily make the weight, it's hard to find people bigger than you!

 

hopkins

 

Bernard also fought alot fewer of them. Oscar fought 10 lineal champions in his career (going 6-6), and defeated another 14 ABC champs besides those, the vast majority of those against guys proven in that weight class. More than half his career was against genuine world class competition.

Genaro Hernandez is a name hardly anyone bothers to mention on Oscar's resume, but would easily be one of Bernard's best wins, for example. I think one reason things are so skewed now is because of the "what have you done for me lately" nature of the game.

So, yeah Oscar lost....but the only men to have ever beat him were lineal champions.

 

i can't agree at all that oscar is clearly better than hopkins is.

hopkins wasn't always pretty to watch but he's always been a superb fighter.

personally i rank hopkins above oscar because i think he's a more complete fighter.

 

I was speaking in terms of resume; H2H, I don't have a problem with people thinking Hopkins is the tougher matchup (I'd probably lean towars Hopkins as the tougher matchup myself). I should've phrased that better. :thumbsup

 

Its not who I would put in front of Oscar to seperate them..Its who I would move to either send Hops up or Oscar back.

At the moment I cant really see who.

I just checked anyway Ive got Hopkins at #50 and De La Hoya #71 right now. The gap isnt as huge as it looks, as at that stage of the list the difference between fighters is fairly small but there is some space between them.
Hops wont move up much further I dont reckon if he retires, considering Ive got Ted Lewis and Holman Williams in the next 2 spots ahead of him..If Pavlik does a bit more career he probably will.

 

fair call.

hopkins truly is brilliant defensively. like i said he isn't always pretty to watch but nobody ever looks good against him for a good reason.

it's rare to find a fighter who's success is largely based on consistently being able to negate his opponents offense.