oh well you said Holyfield could not beat tyson or he did not train etc. TYSON SUCKS. How come he quits on his stool , and against a stool pigeon?? thats the big differance between him and a "SMOKIN JOE FRAZIER" who has no idea what quitting mean't!
Joe Frazier's Alltime Ratings CAREER WOULD HAVE TO BE ranked over Tyson's about no. #10 to no. #20 . Only lost to Ali and Foreman He was an undisputed champion, defeated ALI BEAT 10-14 top ten contenders- Ring. WBA, ETC.- (ranked at the time) George Chuvalo (WBA, Ring) Buster Mathis (Ring) Manuel Ramos (WBA, Ring) Oscar Bonavena (WBA, Ring)-Twice Dave Zyglewicz (WBA) Jerry Quarry (WBA, Ring)-Twice Jimmy Ellis (WBA, Ring)-Twice Bob Foster (Light Heavy Champion) Muhammad Ali (Ring) Terry Daniels (WBA) Joe Bugner (WBA) I would only go by ring on this list for only about ten were worthy of the top ten regardless. still an impressive resume for any fighter!
People are confusing chin with endurance/recovery. Frazier got knocked down by a vicious uppercut he ran right into and didn't see coming. Rather than backing off, clinching, or running to recover, he immediately charged right back into the fight. This then happened 5 more times. 90% of fighters in history would have stayed down after the first two knockdowns, let alone 6, and the ref had to save Frazier from himself who wasn't actually counted out. While I do think Tyson takes single shots better than Frazier, context matters. Tyson is not going to just stand there or run head first right into a follow up shot. It's not his style. Tyson used his head movement to evade up shots and would clinch when hurt. Frazier rarely clinched and could only really be effective at close range while Tyson could be effective at mid range too. With Foreman pushing Frazier back (technically against the rules), being taller with longer arms, and Frazier being unable to fight backing up, he really had no choice. He tried a few times to Bob and weave or use his cross arm block, but Foreman's heavy jab and perfectly timed uppercuts caught him every time. It was either try desperately to get close or give up an go into his shell and lose round after round unable to mount an offense. You know, like Tua did against Lewis. So it's disingenuous to look at this fight and come to the conclusion Frazier had far worse chin or a bad chin when most fighters would have gotten plastered to the canvas in the same situation and wouldn't have gotten up so many times. Frazier had better recovery and heart compared to Tyson. In contrast, Tyson could take an odd shot or two better but once he was hurt, usually stayed hurt and rarely came back to win fights.
Yeah you could tell Mike was putting in overtime for his bullying here. Don't think he ever did that with an opponent except for the first Ruddock match. Of course Ruddock irked him after sending Mike a Christmas card saying "Here's to knocking out your two front teeth. Merry Christmas!" To Mike, Ruddock hadn't proved anything yet and was talking too much. Both were different scenarios, of course.
I think they’re both in the 5-8 range so any ranking is fine and you’re splitting hairs really. Frazier has the single best win out of either of them, Tyson is Tyson though and has a lot of wins over solid contenders. It’s close either way and I wouldn’t be particularly peeved who someone had higher as long as they weren’t screaming from the rooftops about how they were right and any contrary opinion was bad.
Frazier for a number of reasons he's the only guy that ever actually whooped on and beat "all there Ali" Tyson would not have performed near on the level of Frazier in Manila Tyson wouldn't be able to eat Ali's jabs like Frazier and would easily be picked apart by Ali we know Frazier can kill in deep water, Tyson has never really been tested like that punch for punch Frazier does more damage, if Tyson's 6-4 didn't KO Ribalta it isn't KOing Ali or Frazier Foreman destroys both of them, but FOTC Frazier is questionable
The fans rating Frazier over Mike have lost their minds. Maybe reliving "the good ole' days" perhaps? I don't know. I honestly think when people do these comparisons, whether it be music, art, or anything else, that they have to give themselves a lesser "hero" to worship in order to feel better about themselves. I also think they vote with their heart and not their head, but that's what makes the world what it is I guess. I liked Joe Frazier a lot, but would not rank him over Tyson. I think Mike Tyson was better all around, punched harder, faster hands and feet, better defense.
