Who ranks higher ?... DLH or MOSELY ?

I think De La Hoya. I believe he has fought the better opposition. SSM resume at lightweight isn't the greatest. SSM could go on to do something now, it is a loaded division. So we'll see.

 

DH has not won a major fight since Quartey.

He did beat: Whitaker, Quartey, Chavez...but he lost the rest of his big fights.

 

Im not sure I get your reasoning either fleaman.

Pretty much the success of Mosley relied on his physical advantages over his opposition..That was his style..power boxing..overwhelming his opponent, with his physical strength, speed and explosiveness not necessarily pure technical skill.

His whole lightweight career he held the advantages over his opponents in almost every department..I think when he faced guys who actually did have something over him, especially skill (and size), he lost or looked quite bad. Forrest, Wright and Cotto for example.

I dont think Shane won a fight from late 2001 till early 2005 with the pair of losses to Winky and Vernon, the very dubious decision against DLH and the no contest against Marquez.

 

IMO Mosley did defeat DH on the second fight.

I scored the Wright-Mosley II, a draw, it was close.

 

De La Hoya, by far. 10-time world champion in 6 divisions, fought the better opposition and beat the better opposition (I count the 2nd Mosley fight in favor of him, the Tito fight is very much debated as well, I had Oscar winning that one as well).

Mosley did a huge thing beating Margarito, so it's getting closer, and he has the chance to fight Cotto again, maybe Mayweather and Pacquiao later, so he can still surpass Oscar, who is done as a pro boxer. But at the moment, De La Hoya is very clearly ahead. People still count Oscar's career from the Tito 'loss', because that fight turned my people to boxing. But up to that point, DLH had already built up a prime HOF career, and most of us think he beat Tito on that night.

 

I disagree on both counts to tell you the truth..Wright-Mosley was closer, not necessarily close.

Mosley-Hoya II was pretty clear for Oscar. One of the worst decisions of that year in a lot of people's eyes. I wouldnt go that far, but Im sure a lot of those people dont watch much boxing outside the big fights. The reaction to that fight was a classic..I couldnt find a sound arguement for Mosley winning that fight but some of the Hoya fans went completely overboard with the reaction to it, as the fight wasnt a landslide and had some debatable rounds.

 

DH is certainly not CLEARLY ahead of Mosley.

Why do soem folks here rank those alphabetic titles in those multiple weight classes so high, these ain't the 80's?

 

Fair enough, I'll try and explain.

I'm with the guys who think, whilst he is a good match H2H at LW, Mosley's LW resume is often overrated.

When he moved straight up to WW he wasn't the bigger guy, and he wasn't a bigger guy at 154. Although he did lose to Wright and Forrest, I think the same would've happened to DLH. However, DLH was more than happy facing over-the-hill (Chavez) and smaller guys (Gatti/Floyd)

In the end it was alla bout money. I think the fact that both guys have similar losses to bigger guys on their records and similar wins in their prime (Mosley against lesser opposition, DLH against arguably 'shot' opposition in Pea and Chavez, the former who gave him a very good fight and in some people's eyes won a decision) makes it very close....I guess I picked Mosley on personal preference, the fact that he's kept on going in older age (DLH wanted no part of Margo and you couldn't imagine Shane losing to Pac in THAT fashion) and the fact he holds two wins over DLH himself, regardless of the steroid controversy and the fact many though DLH won the 2nd fight (I had it a draw)

Hope that clears it up, I always try to give my reasons :good

 

There is one argument why Mosley won: He landed the more damaging shots especially to the body. DH was dominating at the beginning but then SSM caught up and finished stronger.

The one fight in which could havea DH victory was Trindidad - DH.

 

He also struggled with past-prime fighters, regardless of how great they were in their prime.

At the end of the day, I don't want this to become a slanging match. I hardly rate Mosley over DLH (in fact I had DLH up by one place prior to Saturday, I know have Mosley ahead of him) their careers are very close....I just think Shane has had more disadvantages to come through in order to have his success. He was big for a LW sure, but DLH was big for a SFW, LW, and a LWW!

As I say, I have them very, very close. It might just be personal bias that means I have Mosley ahead, but 'weak opinions'. A little bit harsh, and given my track record on ESB, something I could never be accused of. Liek you I always try to back up my claims with 'facts'.

 

Vargas- Top 5 Fighter at 154
Quartey- Top 5 fighter at 147 (Undefeated)
Trinidad- P4P#3 (Undefeated)
Chavez- WBC LWW Champion (one loss)
Whitaker- P4P# 2
Gonzlez- Considered P4P fighter (Undefeated)
Molina- Top fighter at LW
Leija- Top fighter at LW
Peaz- Top fighter at LW
Camacho- Had only lost to Tito,and Chavez.
Hernandez- Top fighter at LWW (undefeated)
Mosley rematch- Steroids
Ruelas- IBF champion (one loss)
Javier Castillejo- WBC Jr.MW champ


Now put Mosley's record.

 

DH did lose to Trindidad. If you go by personal opinions you can also question the Whitaker and Quartey victories.

I give DH a lot of credit for fighting all those guys and defeating some of them. DH is a sure lock HOF and may very well get in the ATG list.

But as I stated DH has not won a major fight since Quartey 11 years ago.

 

Quartey- Top 5 fighter at 147 (Undefeated) - Great win, no doubt. But many people had Ike winning that fight

Trinidad- P4P#3 (Undefeated) - Oscar lost (oficially). Of course, Oscar deserved the win, according to most of experts, but his win over average fighter Felix Sturm is at least as controversial as his lost to Tito

Chavez- WBC LWW Champion (one loss) - Chavez was shot

Whitaker- P4P# 2 - Whitaker was well past his prime (he struggled badly in his Previous fights with Wilfredo Rivera), and I still think Whitaker did enough to win that fight

Gonzlez- Considered P4P fighter (Undefeated) - very good win

Molina- Top fighter at LW - Very good win, but Mosley beat him as well. Yes, I know that Molina was older when he fought Shane, but Shane beat him much easier that Oscar did

Leija- Top fighter at LW - Shane beat him as well

Peaz- Top fighter at LW - [I]Good win[/I]

Camacho- Had only lost to Tito,and Chavez. - Good win, but Camacho was past his prime

Hernandez- Top fighter at LWW (undefeated) - Great win, I think it's most underrated Oscar's win
Mosley rematch- Steroids - I had Mosley winning 115:113

Ruelas- IBF champion (one loss) - Ruelas was overrated fighter, I think Louis Collazo (in Mosley's resume) is better than Ruelas

Javier Castillejo- WBC Jr.MW champ - Good win, but is it any better, than Shane's win over Holiday? I don't think so

And don't forget, Mosley never was KO'ed and never lost to former featherweights-lightweights

 

DLH aged a lot quicker than SSM and hasn't really looked anything special since 2003.

SSM was ordinary between 2002 and 2006 (starting off with Forrest and ending with the first Vargas fight which was a crossroads fight) and even then looked very ordinary against Mayorga.

There really isn't that much to seperate them but I think because of the high-profile defeats DLH has suffered through his career (though a couple were dubious) I suspect that history will remember SSM as the better fighter.

 

:huh

At WW his two best wins were against DLH in a SD, and now Margarito. He also has a few fights against B and C level fighter before and after DLH.

2 great wins only.

DLH's record at 147 is better than Mosley's by far.

At 154 shane beat a shot Vargas, and way past primed Mayorga. He got a gift to DLH and to top it off roided. So he basically had no real sucess at 154. Try to tell me he did. I dare you.

DLH did not fight Whitaker and Chavez at 154 either. He fought them several years before at 147. Infact Whitaker was P4P#2 when ODLH fought him. Chavez was WBC 140 champ. Oscar hadto move up to fight them too.

DLH had unified 154 by beating Javier Castillejo and Fernando Vargas.

I like how you ignore all of ODLH's wins against top fighters, none who had losing streaks. I made a good list in this thread of the top fighters DLH beat.

Exactly, it was a BIAS pick. That's all you did.

Fighters get old, some sooner than others. Just because RJJ was dominated by Calzaghe, Tarver, and Johnson, doesn't mean he would too get ranked below Mosley.

Unbelievableatsch

No, no it didn't.