Who ranks higher, Hagler or Hopkins

Same way he dealt with Sam Peter in their first fight and Vassily Jirov, except easier and without taking as much damage.

 

Like I said, I don't like comparing different era's. Erdei top 5 LHW of this era, Hagler top 3 MW ever. Make of that what you will.

 

Ok ... but so was hopkins after DHL .. hagler could be the greatest ever but when u take those 3 names out .. then no one really jumps out on his resume ... hopkins a record at middle weight and unlike hagler his resume doesn't stop there ... he's done a lot of thing north of the weightclass also ... gotta go with bhop ...

 

As far as accomplishments go its Hopkins without a doubt.

 

Hagler at 33 loses to a welterweight champ coming off a 3 year layoff. Hopkins at 36 knocks out a prime and active Felix Trinidad. Knocks out ODLH at 39. At 41 takes the LHW title from a formidable champ. At 45 gets robbed against a prime young LHW champ.

This shouldn't even need to be discussed. The answer is more than obvious once you subtract the popularity factor from the equation.

 

Bernie,you wrote that Hagler at 36 knocks out.... .But we all know what you meant.Having said that,Hagler was shot at 32.You and I and almost everyone else knows that fighters age differently,and by the time Hagler retired,he had 67 fights,more than B-hop has had up until this point at age 45.Leonard has even come out and said the only reason he challenged Hagler when he did is due to Marv's sluggish performance against Mugabi.You and I both know that Leonard talked about fighting Hagler for many years,only to step up when it was obvious Hagler was shot.Plus,that B-Hop is still a good fighter at this age is a testament to his longevity that only someone like Archie Moore can match.

 

No guarantee Hagler's a better fighter head to head. Bernard was bigger, kept the division on lockdown more than twice as long. Hopkins would whoop that ass h2h.

 

Cheers,man.It's a great thread nevertheless:good

 

Nobody,but nobody from middle on down "whips" Hagler's "ass".He may lose,but just on granite chin alone,no one whips that ass.And Hagler had 12 defenses to B-hops 20 at middle,so timeframe wise,it may have been twice as long,but not quantity nor quality.

 

You think because they are bigger means Toney can handle Hagler and his speed? Hagler was quicker than those two and threw punches with much more efficiency than Jirov or Peter. Marvin had a great jab and fought every minute of every round, unlike James. The mistake you are making is comparing Hagler to guys like Peter and Jirov. And in the rematch Peter outclassed James. Marvin was a great middleweight and Toney was not.

 

Hagler wasn't shot, he just got beat. Maybe he'd lost a half step, but he hadn't been on a long layoff, he was still the bigger man. His legs were steady, his punch output was good and he came after Ray for all 12 rounds. SRL was a welterweight coming off a 3 year layoff, taking on an active MW champ and he won. Spin that anyway you like, but facts is facts. That version of SRL doesn't beat ANY version of Hopkins as champ.

The fact that SRL won that fight just means that there is a HUGE gap in ability between SRL and Hagler. Hagler is overrated as can be.

 

I believe those statements speak for themselves.

 

Hagler is overrated. Toney would shoulder roll, make him miss and make him pay all night long. Roy Jones would do anything he wanted, anytime he wanted. A young Nard would just beat him up and an old Nard would set traps and stick and move his way to a win, Hagler was NOT a smart fighter and SRL proved that beyond any doubt.

 

Felix wasn't even a natural middleweight ever. He beat Joppy when Joppy decided to slug, and anyway Joppy was overrated. His best win was over an over the hill Duran. Oscar was even less of a natural middleweight than Felix, and actually should have lost to Sturm. mentioning Hopkins beating Tarver doesn't mean that much, since the same can be said that Hopkins lost to Jermain Taylor. If he lost to Taylor than he would lose to Marvin. And losing to Leonard was not that bad. Consider that Marvin always stayed sharp and active. He was active up until he fought Hearns.. He had fought Hamsho the previous October, but after Hearns he took a year off, had another tough fight with Mugabi and then another year off. He contemplated retirement instead of fighting Ray. It goes back to Hearns. He put all his heart and soul into the Hearns fight and after that I think he had less motivation. And in reality that fight did shape his legacy. A fight which Toney lacks. Toney lacks that signature win over a great that Marvin has. He lost his motivation a little The guy Hopkins fought in his reign were not Hagler caliber opponents. I admit Hopkins is good, but he is feasting on younger guys who he handpicks like Pavlik and Tarver. Don't mistake those guys for Marvin Hagler.