Who ranks higher on the all-time great list, Pacquiao or Holyfield?

We all know about Pacquiao's achievements.

Holyfield's achievements:

4-time legitimate Heavyweight champion
Has beaten more world champions than anyone in history
Has beaten world class fighters like Bowe, Tyson, Qawi, DeLeon, Mercer, Rahman, Foreman, Holmes, Ruiz etc
Fought most of his career with a heart problem
Was put down by everyone when he wasnted to move up to Heavyweight,but he proved everyone wrong by winning the title 4 times
He is the greatest Cruiserweight champion ever
He is pushing 50 years old and arguably beat the biggest Heavyweight champion ever 1 fight ago
Recently beat the WBF Heavyweight champ (at 47 years old)

 

Whoa, whoa, what's this about beating more world champions than anyone in history, among other things?

 

@Boxed Ears
He has. You won't find anyone who has beaten more world champions than Holyfield. The reason he has is because there are so many world title belts therefore it is not too hard to fight a world champion nowadays.

 

If we're counting WBO, WBC, WBA, IBF...I believe ODLH has him beat(have to double check), as an example. And are we going by victories over champions or only how many champions, as in discounting more than one victory over the same champion?

 

From where I read that Holyfield beat the most world champions, I'm not sure if they counted only the 4 legitimate title belts. They may have counted fringe belts, but I'm not sure. I will list the world champions De La Hoya beat and the world champs Holyfield beat. Feel free to add in if you think I've left someone out. I am only including victories over a world champ that held a legitimate world title belt (IBF, WBC, WBA and WBO). They do not have to be reigning champions when they beat them.

Holyfield:
Rickey Parkey = IBF CW title
Carlos DeLeon = WBC CW title
Dwight Qawi = WBA CW title, WBC LW title
Hasim Rahman = WBC, IBF HW title
George Foreman = WBC, WBA, IBF HW Title
Larry Holmes = WBC HW title
Mike Tyson = WBC, WBA, IBF HW title
Riddick Bowe = WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO HW title
Ray Mercer = WBO HW title
John Ruiz = WBA HW title
Michael Moorer = IBF, WBA HW title, WBO LW title
James Buster Douglas = WBC, WBA, IBF HW title
Ossie Ocasio = WBA CW title
Bobby Czyz = WBA CW title, IBF LW title
Francois Botha = IBF HW title (although was stripped of it shortly after)
Pinklon Thomas = WBC HW title
Michael Dokes = WBA HW title

That is 17 world champs


Oscar De La Hoya:

Troy Dorsey
Jimmi Bredahl
Jorge Paez
John John Molina
Rafael Ruelas
Genaro Hernandez
Jesse James Leija
Julio Cesar Chavez
Miguel Gonzalez
Pernell Whitaker
Hector Camacho
Ike Quartey
Arturo Gatti
Javier Castillejo
Fernando Vargas
Luis Ramon Campas
Felix Sturm
Ricardo Mayorga
Steve Forbes

That is 19 world champions


Therefore, I think the guy who wrote that Holyfield beat the most included fringe world title belts.

Thanks for the info.

 

I never counted Botha because his own title fight win was made a No Contest, to my knowledge, and therefor it's not a title win- and he was never legitimately champion in history. BUT, Tyrone Booze was a champion that Holy beat that's not on that list. I checked boxrec, it was Holy's fifth pro fight and an eight-rounder. 17 is a massive number, even with the four abcs for sure.

 

Cool. Thanks.
I think Roy Jones Jr may also have a high number as well.

 

I did a thread once comparing Whitaker and Jones Junior and we came up with these for Roy:

1. Jorge Fernando Castro
2. Jorge Vaca
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. James Toney
5. Thulani Malinga
6. Vinny Pazienza
7. Eric Lucas
8. Mike McCallum (IBHOF)
9. Montell Griffin
10. Virgil Hill
11. Lou Del Valle
12. Otis Grant
13. Reggie Johnson
14. Julio Cesar Gonzalez
15. Clinton Woods
16. John Ruiz
17. Antonio Tarver
18. Felix Trinidad
19. Jeff Lacy

:thumbsup

 

Woah, that is more than I expected. Thanks again.

Anyway, back to the question of the thread, who ranks higher, Pacman or Holyfield?

 

Pacquiao needs 1-2 more big fights. Holyfield needs to retire before people forget how good he was.

 

@Mendoza
I totally agree with you about Holyfield. They will forget about how good he was. he is tarnishing his great legacy by fighting on. Even though he just won the WBF title at 47 and is defending it in November, he is too old to be fighting.

 

It's a tough call. I rate based on a mix of H2H and accomplishment and I rate Evander higher in a H2H sense as a CW and HW than I do Pac in any of his weight classes. But, Pac's built the case for being ranked higher on accomplishment over the past few years. His victories over champions I've worked out to:

14 over 12

1. Joshua Clottey - Former IBF Welterweight Champion
2. Miguel Cotto - Then current WBO Welterweight and future WBA Light Middleweight Champion
3. Ricky Hatton - Then current lineal Light Welterweight Champion and former Welterweight Champion
4. Oscar De La Hoya - Then former Light Middleweight Champion
5. David Diaz - Then Current WBC Lightweight Champion
6. Juan Manuel Marquez - Then Current Super Featherweight Champion and for the lineal title
7. Marco Antonio Barrera (x2)
8. Erik Morales (x2)
9. Oscar Larios
10. Erik Morales
11. Marco Antonio Barrera
12. Jorge Eliecer Julio
13. Lehlohonolo Ledwaba
14. Chatchai Sasakul

Although I typed the list going backwards chronologically. I have them both between 20 and 30, but I've shuffled Pacquiao back and forth, trying to decide. Currently, I've got him above Evander, but like I said, I've been shuffling him around and trying to make a decision for if he retired today, where I think he should go. I think if he were to actually get in the ring with and actually pull a win out over Mayweather, we really should put him over Holy, because that's a terrible match-up for him to overcome, imo. I could babble about it for a few more paragraphs, but I'm sure I'd get less decisive the more I did it.

 

I find it hard to, at this point in time, rank Pacquiao higher than Holyfield. But I will admit that I am bias towards Holyfield because he is my favorite fighter of all time.
If Pacquiao beats Mayweather AND one other legitimate opponents (Williams, Berto etc), then I will rank him above Holyfield.

Thanks for your opinion though. It is probably more credible than mine because you aren't as bias towards either fighter.

 

I dont think many people will seriously judge him on bad results he had in his late-30s and through his 40s.
I mean, we've already seen him lose to guys like Ruiz, Byrd, Donald, Toney, Ibragimov ...... but we're still talking about him as a great fighter.
The boxing press and fans know it doesn't matter if he loses to some bum, he will always be an all-time great.

And if his "comebacks" are mentioned at all in the mainstream press, even negatively, it kind of proves that he was a great fighter that he's getting coverage at all.

No one with a brain will forget how good he once was.

 

@Unforgiven
I certainly hope that happens. We mustn't forget about how good any fighter was in their prime. Holyfield, in my opinion, wasn't even at his best when he fought Lewis, and that was back in '99. He still gave Lewis a run for his money in the 2nd fight. He was 37 then.