Who ranks higher on the Heavyweight list - Evander Holyfield or Rocky Marciano?

Forgive my french but you know JACK about anything if you think Walcott, Charles and Moore were shot (yet you don't think fat wobbling 42 year old bold coz if he had hair it would be grey Foreman and Larry where's my contact Holmes were not??) - you are beyond help my friend:bart

 

Does D T stand for desperate times??:yep Then no maybe it's dunce thicko??:think

 

I don't think they were 'shot' and never described them as such, working on the reading comprehension young man. All are considered past prime though. It's liberal use of describing Holyfields opposition 'shot' while ignoring Rocky's past prime opponents I object to

 

Valdez wasn't fat he just wasn't that good, Baker was another SHW contender but wasnt that good either, Bivins was a no1 HW contender but was past prime when Moore got to him, Henry was a top contender.

No doubt Moore earned his title shot and beat some of the top HWs of his era, but I certainly wouldn't rate any of Moore's wins at HW over Moorer and not Mercer either imo

 

Well, apart from maybe 9-12 minutes I did, but what's that in the scheme of things?

 

Holyfield´s a cheater, the only list he should be on is the list of shame.

 

No I was comparing the fringe 50's guys against the Fringe 90's guys.

I thought you said they were shot? How can they be both shot and above par?

Debatable. Firstly holyfeild was beaten by two of them himself. Secondly he did not beat the best of tyson or bowe and many are not sure he ever beat lewis.


The fat bowe holyfeild beat was a mess, the guy couldnt move out the way of punches then the fan man gave him some relief. Tyson at that time flattered to deceive, could that tyson, the one Holyfeild beat get past the driven walcott marciano beat?

If that was the case why were both so selective of who they would fight in the 1990s? They were old men cherry picking weaker green guys they could exploit and they could not dominate anyone any good. Foreman was beaten by axel schulz and Holmes was beaten by maurice harris but both got the decision. I think rex layne would have blasted the pair of them just as frank bruno or rudduck would have if either got the chance. Baker and valdes would have been too much for them too. If the fighters george and larry had been in the 1990s were around in the 1950s they would have been just as selective. both knew their limitations.

And yet jesse furgeson beat mercer. furgerson was about the level of a keene simmons who was a fringe guy the beter fighters beat. douglas was hot and cold I think satterfeild would suprise him. Moorer, the natural LH himself? maxim, turkey thompson, sheperd or baksi would give him 50-50 fights. Harold johnson would master all three at HW.

 

1. OK but you only brought up the top 50s contenders some Rocky didn't beat while ignoring some of the top 90s contenders like Rudduck, Golotta, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Morrison, Bruno. The 50s fringe contenders aren't matching up and the 90s were just so deep

2. I didn't define them as shot, I objected to the classification of Holyfield's opponents as 'shot' and ignoring Rocky's past prime opponents

3. The only Rocky opponent who you could debate over those would be Walcott. And yes Holyfield didnt face the best Bowe/Tyson but Rocky didn't face the best Charles, Moore, Walcott or Louis. It works both ways

4. Way to shoot down 2 of the greatest wins in HW history

5. Stylistically and in terms of pure quality I think so. For 1 thing Walcott was a little chinny being ko'd by Simon, Rocky and Louis. For another he fought with his hands down, which is near suicide against Tyson. For another a 38yo man isn't going to have the stamina to make it uncomfortable for Tyson and his power while reasonable isn't enough to get Tysons respect

6. We are talking about the version of Holmes/Foreman that Evander fought not the versions they would be in 5years from then. Holmes wanted to face Lennox Lewis and Foreman so he was looking for big fights. Valdez and Baker were not aggressive punchers and weren't very good, and not as dangerous as Morrison, McCall or Mercer, who both couldn't hurt Holmes/Foreman. Your picking sub par bums to KO ATGs that other ATG couldnt KO. BTW Holmes may have deserved the nod over McCall. Everyone ran from Foreman when they fought him anyway. And no Harris didn't get the nod over a shot Holmes

7. Mercer ran hot and cold, he still went on to win 4 rounds out of 10 against both LEwis and Holyfield, he was a top contender with skill. Moorer grew into a solid 210lbs (with 10lbs of tire :yep) he was drained at, if you want to call Moore a LHW, call Charles/Moore MWs as thats where they started out. Maxim winning rounds against Moorer? atsch Are you nuts, I hope your not basing that off his gift against a teenage Patterson

 

You're making it sound like cheating is a bad thing, I'm confused :huh

 

Mercer got well and truly schooled by by a fat old man in Holmes aswell that and the Ferguson result pretty much sum up Mercer's level for me. Yeah I think Maxim and Harold Johnson own Moorer aswell - back to the point for me that Foreman was truly an old old old fat man in the mid 90's - Moorer was winning hands down until his poor chin was found a bingo shot from George - George had spent the previous 9 rounds getting continually punished - much in the way Louis did against Marciano

 

Lennox Lewis would've put Larry in hospital!! And the fact that Holmes wanted the Foreman fight means that neither were fat old men does it?? Valdes and Baker weren't punchers??!! That's exactly what they were!!?? Aahahahahahaha not as dangerous as Morrison MCCall or Mercer??!!!! :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl Oh yeah Tommy KO'd in 1 by Michael Bennt Morrison Oliver Sparring partner material McCall who lost to Frank Bruno (!!!!) and Ray I got beat by Big Jessie Ferguson and got humiliated by an old grandad Mercer - yeah they were a real worry - the fifties contenders had more fight and more ability in the little toes than these guys!!!

And Holmes deserving the nod over McCall proves that Holmes wasn't a washed up old man???? All that proves is that McCall in truth was simply a second rater - that's why during the years he really would've been a contender (had he really been a class fighter) he was just sparring fodder for Tyson