Who ranks higher on your ATG List. Oscar De La Hoya or Floyd Mayweather Jr

I brought up Broner because its an obvious bias. You were acting like my sporting an Oscar avatar DQ'd me from talking about him. If you wanted to use that logic, you'd be DQ'd from discussing Floyd or Broner because you're biased towards them, and biased against other guys, such as Pacquiao. About 99.9% of the civilized world had that one wide for Manny, so scoring it for Bradley or as a draw represents an obvious bias/inability to score fights.

Moving on, that's getting a little off-topic. Judging from the way you responded to my most recent post, you are not nearly as impossible to have a conversation with as I had first suspected. Nevertheless, I still have to disagree with the notion that he's fought super-stiff competition north of 135. When Gatti is your big win at 140, and when your best win at 147 is either Judah or the 40 year old Mosley, and your best win at 154 is probably a faded Oscar, that's not really an awesome resume.

DLH clearly lost once in his prime, to Mosley the first time. He had close fights with Whitaker and Quartey (scored Quartey to him by a point, Whitaker by 2) and outclassed Trinidad and outboxed a roided-up Mosley the second time, only to be dubiously denied the decision both times. He was far above his best weight against Sturm and Hopkins, and well past his best against Floyd, and a zombie vs. Pac. The idea that prime DLH lost most of his big fights is simply incorrect.

I'll give you that he was robotic and a little one-handed at 130-135. I don't rank him at either of those weights as a result. He'd smoothed out his game at 140 and was a physical monster there, and his technical skills were much improved at 147 and 154. He even developed solid counterpunching skills and a very able lead and counter right under Floyd Sr. He's like the reverse of Floyd in that he is better H2H and resume wise at higher weights than he was at lower weights.

I stand by my original statements and feel Oscar ranks higher overall, but Floyd certainly has an argument to be ranked higher. He certainly has a chance to clearly beat out Oscar if he closes out his career in strong fashion and takes some tough fights. If he were to fight Martinez at 154 or a catchweight between 154 and 160, and fight Alvarez before he retired, I'd give him a lot of respect and props for doing so. I wouldn't even hold it against him much if he lost, since he's not as great at that weight. But he should still take those fights for legacy purposes, and prove he was willing to take risky fights well after he'd passed having any financial incentive to do so, like Oscar, Leonard, and other past greats have . Right now, I can't rank him higher than Oscar. Depending on how the rest of his career unfolds, my answer might change, but right now it's DLH.

 

Good point mate, if we were comparing their best wins over prime fighters, had Oscar got the decision he'd deserved against Tito and Mosley, then it would look like

Floyd:
Corrales
Castillo
Hatton

Oscar:
Tito
Mosley
Vargas


And it's clearly a landslide win for Oscar. The main point Floyd has for him is being undefeated in 43 fights

How strong do you consider the Cotto that Floyd beat, near prime or past it?

 

I consider that a solid win, perhaps within his top 5. I consider him near enough to his peak that it's worth a good deal. It's hard to judge whether Cotto's present-day versatility compensates for his offensive sharpness and confidence pre-Margarito at 147.

But as you say, with those wins included, I think Oscar outshines Floyd by having those universally considered victories on his record.

 

I agree that Margarito took something out of Cotto, but he looked sharp against Mayweather, and that's enough for me to consider it a very good win. It's at least as good as the win over Hatton, if not better.

Agreed, the win over Whitaker was very good as well, though he was past his best, Pea was still a top fighter at that time

As it's late, that's my last post for today :good

 

All true

 

You failed to mention that Oscar has beaten the better guys than Floyd did :good

Corrales wouldn't even have registered as a top 5 win for Oscar with guys like Whitaker, Quartey, Trinidad on his resume.

 

You can argue Oscar Lost those fights. I agree Whitaker would be better than Corrales but not Quartey.

 

Mayweather

 

Trinidad
Whitaker
Quartey
Chavez
Vargas


Corrales is absolutely below the level of those guys. He is around the level of Genaro Hernandez or a Miguel Gonzales, very good champs in there own right.

 

Trinidad, Vargas, and the Mosley rematch by themselves are better than any 3 groupings you could pull from Floyd's resume. I don't understand. The media machines behind Manny and Floyd have corrupted people's judgments in extreme ways.

 

-I agree with Trinidad and Whitaker. But he never beat Whitaker. Whitaker was well past it and sniffing Coke.
- Take Quartey off that list, I would rate Corrales above Quartey. Quartey weren't all that. Who did Quartey really beat ? he lost everytime he stepped up. Winky, Vargas, Forrest all beat him. You can argue Quartey was robbed against Oscar. I rate Oscar win over Hernadez better than his win over Quartey.
- Chavez was about 100 years old
- Vargas was never the same after Trinidad.

 

Do you rank Oscar above Manny ?

 

I might. But Manny has a certified win over a near-prime ATG in Marco Antonio Barrera, who is certainly able to challenge anyone on Oscar's resume P4P as an individual win, along with a host of other impressive weight-jumping victories.. So it is more difficult with Manny. But I could envision Oscar still being more accomplished.