Who ranks higher on your ATG p4p list - Benny Leonard or Sugar Ray Leonard? Why?

:good Agreed.

You have to respect what the fighters did from that era, but I think the standard in technique and skill has become greater since.

I'm open to other opinions, though.

 

I rate on an era by era basis when comparing pre and post modern fighters (mainly on achievements, with other variables coming into play as well), otherwise with modern fighters I'll rate them on ability as well, probably moreso than anything in fact. I do agree with guys like fleaman and selfkill in that sense, though. I don't believe the sport to have fully modernized by the time Leonard was fighting, though I do believe he was one of the original pioneers for the modern scene.

That said, I rank Benny borderline top 10, Ray in the top 15.

 

Benny easily. A great great jewish warrior. with many times the number of fights of SRL.

better opposition. didnt duck anyone. much better chin. tougher. sturdier. smarter, better technician. granted rematches to his most worthy opposition.

So many fights. SO many great opponents. Better than Duran and the accomplishments of SRl dwindle into insignificance

as for Ray his performances are hardly impressive. I think his best performance came in the Hagler fight becuz of the slowness of Hagler but once presented with the speed of Norris, we saw he really isnt such a hot fighter after all.

that uppercut that Norris caught him with? Benny would have shook it off and went back at him with a vengeance. Ray doesnt have the heart Benny possessed.

 

all hard questions to answer. but if i were to include guys from pre-1930 then greb and leonard would be a lock for top five. i know too little and have seen too little to include guys from this era, and that what i have seen hasn't really impressed me in terms of refinement, please see previous post for elaberation. at least with robinson i've seen him at middle. i can imagine him slightly faster,hispunches being more effective etc etc and can confidently pick him against most,ifnotall the welters from history. i honestly think even shannon briggs, or even michael bentt would make fast work of langford, and can't imagine barbodoes joe even beating a berto. for me iguess, i feel comfortable ranking guys from jou louis onwards. again, just my opinion, and i assume a lot of footage would help to change my opinion, but there isn't so i won't :good

 

Not sure. I haven't seen enough footage of Leonard to make that choice. I don't think anyone has really. I think if anyone says otherwise based on that one clip, they're pretty much bullshitting.

 

Could you be a bit more specific? Any particular sequences?

 

from what i've seen and only from those few rounds casa pts. i'll give leonard the benefit of the due to his apparent durability, but he seems a little slower and alittle sharper,and like a lot of okd footage i've seen, seems to lunge with his shots. i wouldn't be surprised if casa wins 10 out of 10, neither would i be if he stops him most of the time. but for all i know he could've had a chin on par with chavez. if that's the case i say there's achance that by their 10th encounter benny has figured out enough to give casa a challenge, but i won't lie;that is a genuine attempt to appease more die-hard supporters of the pre-war era/era's.

 

Benny by about 2 or 3 spots. For his era, he's often described as being as good as it gets, and he's got the better resume.

 

To pick between two boxers of different eras is next to imposible for a start training methods are so changed now from then guys would shadow box a bit of sparring do their runs & eat whatever came to hand & most of the time that was'nt much .
All you can say with any certainy is that with how great the likes of Benny & others were how much greater they would have been with the advantages modern day boxers have & with that in mind I vote for Benny Leonard

 

i have seen his fights with McLarnin and Tendler and i think he owuld win but obviously it aint enough really.

Benny ranks higher for me hes just out side my top 10 whereas Ray is top 20

 

Apples and oranges

 

Benny Leonard. Longevity.

I cannot accept SRL as a top 10-12 ATG on account of 4 key victories and very little else of value in a short career.

The man had something like 12 world title fights. Sorry, but it's not enough.

Although I'd have him probably a top 5 on ability alone, he must be around 15th in p4p terms.

 

i thought i was the only one!:good