Who ranks higher...Wlad Klitschko or Sonny Liston?

HAHAHA it's so pathetic its sad.

 

Liston > Foreman all day

 

It doesn't upset me, infact I find it fun doing lists.

I used to have liston in my top ten but lately he's dropped. I moved him below Tunney cos I think Gene beats him on points.

 

First of all I did say that I think Wlad edges Sonny on an ATG list, but back to Wlad's comp, rather than compare it to fighters of the 60's my comments were more focused on the comparisions to the 90's. Where the fighters seemed to be bigger and had a lot more heavyweight experience.

 

Maybe if he had a W over a prime Vitali, it would help Wlad's resume.

But even the late FightingWeight (no fan of either Klitscko) stated that the Vitali of Klitschko-Lewis would murder Haye.

Vitali is old and slowing and prone to injuries lately. He would still be a decent scalp, but Haye has avoided him to a point where a victory would hardly be considered a stellar accomplishment.

 

His reign was less than outstanding but he did a fair bit on the way to the belt.




At this point I have Liston, Tyson and Frazier, in some order, at 7,8, and 9, all ahead of Wlad.

I expect wlad to probably leap over some or all of these before he finishes.

 

We might have to get used to the idea of seing Wlad on most top 10 lists.

 

Yes, Marciano might lose one of his distinctions. :yep


And so might Lennox !

 

I do think Wlad will be a consensus top ten when he retires and especially if he does so without losing again... The only way he can move up my list is by his victims going on to achieve greatness or his own achievements surpassing those of Joe Louis (unifying all the belts, staying champ until 2016)

 

I'm sorry, but how does he surpasses Joe Louis by unifying the belts since, if I'm not mistaking, Joe lived decades before that was even possible?

 

It's ok I forgive you :good you're probably best off rereading the post you quoted.

 

Sonny Liston went 50-4 (39) overall and 2-2 (2) in HW World Title Fights... both wins were over Floyd Patterson (KO1 x2), both losses were to Ali (LKOby7 and LKOby1). He was stopped three times. The 6' 215 Lb (aprox) Liston also fought-

Johnny Summerlin W8 and WSD8... a 195 Lber who entered the rematch with a broken nose

Marty Marshall LSD6, KO6, and W10... a 180 Lber who broke Liston's jaw in their first fight

Bert Whitehurst W10 x2... the 190 Lber had been stopped 4 times prior (twice by Archie Moore) but Liston couldn't get the job done

Mike DeJohn KO6... had lost to a very old Jimmy Bivins 3 1/2 years prior

Cleveland Williams KO3 and KO2... one of the most overrated fighters ever who had already been stopped in 3 rounds by LHW Bob Satterfield

Roy Harris KO1... Harris had very little punching power and was a pretty bad fighter overall

Zora Folley KO3... a very good win, Folley wasn't know for having a great chin though

Eddie Machen W12... a solid win over a good fighter and it was no walk in the park

Albert Westphal KO1... for some reason this gets mentioned as a good win for Liston. Westphal was 5'7" and a little chubby at 195 Lbs.

Henry Clark KO7... to his credit he wasn't stopped again for over 4 years, LKOby9 Ken Norton

Chuck Wepner KO10... a one sided beat down, no surprise

Don't even try to talk up his wins over the likes of-

Wayne Bethea, Frankie Daniels, Ernie Cab, Howard King x2, or even Nino Valdes who was washed up by the time Liston beat him. In these 6 fights, these fighters combined for 89 losses.

 

I have Sonny Liston at nr 7 all time.. Wlad not in the top 10, but he is knocking on that door.. If he keeps this up a few years.. and keeps fighting the best ( no matter how miserable the HW division is right now), he's def moving in the top 10.. and might go as high as nr 6... ( Ali, Louis, Foreman, Holmes and Marciano are out of reach)

 

Wladimir Klitschko has gone 58-3 (51) overall and 13-0 (11) in HW World Title Fights... 19-2 (16) if you count his WBO World Title fights. He has been stopped three times. He has avenged one of those losses (Lamon Brewster).

His brother avenged the other two losses for what that's worth (Ross Puritty and Corrie Sanders). Wladimir avenged one of his brothers losses x2 (Chris Byrd).

Wladimir has also beat-

Axel Schulz KO8... who would have been considered a huge HW in Liston's day... 6'3" and a solid 220 Lbs. with a very good chin. He had come close to beating Moorer, Botha, Foreman, and Akinwande. He stopped Kevin McBride (6'6" and about 250 Lbs) in 9 rounds before McBride stopped Mike tyson.

Phil Jackson KO2... Jackson pretty much sucked (in comparison to guys like Ruddock, Lewis, Klitschko, etc) but he was still better than a lot of people Liston beat. 6'1" and 220+ Lbs with good power, went 4 rounds with Ruddock, 8 rounds with Lewis, and lost decisions to Jefferson, Barrett, and Oquendo.

Paea Wolfgramm KO1... he also kinda sucked (when compared to top HWs of his era) but he was huge (6'5" and 280+ Lbs) and he did beat Jorge Gonzalez and Jimmy Thunder. He lost a SD to Elieser Castillo.

Monte Barrett KO7... 6'3" 220 Lbs. Barrett would have beat plenty of guys from Liston's era. He might have had some trouble with Machen and Folley but he probably would have beat them. He would have crushed Williams like he did Tye Fields.

Chris Byrd W12 and KO7... Byrd was a very good fighter. Good speed, durability, and elusiveness. At 6'1" and 213 1/2 Lbs he would not be undersized in Liston's era. He would also not be outskilled or outsped... and from a southpaw stance.

Derrick Jefferson KO2... at 6'6" and about 250 Lbs he would have knocked out a lot of good HWs form the 50's and 60's

Frans Botha KO8... would have done well vs. many of the smaller fighters of yesteryear

Ray Mercer KO6... Mercer still had a good chin, doubt too many could have stopped him this night

Jameel McCline KO10... another giant stopped

Do I really need to keep going? I haven't even mentioned Peter x2, Brock, Ibragimov, Chagaev, Chambers, Haye, or Thompson yet. Maybe none are considered great but as a collective bunch they are pretty damn good.